AA 8k deep vs applsgirls

[king_of_drafts]

I hate waiting til the turn. Do any of your decisions change if board is 79J instead of 69J?

[Ansky]

waiting for a safe turn card is extremely obvious and terrible, and anyone good w/ a draw would check behind on the turn if u check, and will play v well if u open shove the turn.

[ahnuld]

[ QUOTE ]
get it in, especially cause u dont have the Ac.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ahnuld]

yeah, just shove, wtf. your shoving range is so big and AA is near the high end. it cant be wrong.

[recallme]

I think everything is mentioned yet, but most important was " you are in front of every overpair and i think all of them will raise flop against you, or?

It`s a 3bet

[imabigdeal]

i definitely agree with shoving flop, he could be easily be semibluffing, too many awful turn cards can come etc. etc.

[PBFan]

i shove

[ggbman]

Yah, I experiment sometimes with the stop and go as well... I have just found that the vast majority of the time here out hand is defined as one that doesn't want to fold as soon as we call the flop, so most of the time if we stop and go it will just come down to whether or not they have odds to call the turn, and if they have a made hand I don't think they stack off lighter than if we just shove the flop. (Plus as I mentioned, a card could come off which makes him fold a hand he stacks off with on the flop, or makes us give up the best hand)

Anyway, obviously you didn't see that whole wait til the turn part so I am more thinking out loud than dissecting your post... I am in the shove camp here and don't really think i would consider doing much else. On a random sidenote, having this discussion is funny because 2 years ago the formula was see the turn, get all in if the flush doesnt hit(which you could do with rare exception) and exploit your equity as much as possible, and this is almost obsolete now. It's crazy how differentley the games play...

[xorbie]

It's possible that the range applsgirls is gonna get it in here is much, much wider than I thought, but waiting until the turn is something you guys shoud look into, on this board, with these stack sizes and that raise.

The shove would be 4200 into 7600, unlikely (and not that bad for you) if he folds any decent combo draw on the turn (and reduces your variance quite a lot). 0% chance he folds AJ+ on a card lower than J, and unlikely IMO that he folds it even on a Q or K.

It's just a matter of going through the ranges, looking at how often a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] screws you (obviously if pure air or very speculative bluffs make up a certain % of his range, this option becomes less good looking, because he will continue on a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] turn, and you will end sacraficing the pot incorrectly too often). There's only 11 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] out there, 9 if he has the flush draw, so we are only sacraficing the pot 20% of the time at most (assuming he shoves his entire range on a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] turn, I assume sometimes he checks down worse, which means we sacrafice 4k - actually the math is more complicated but im about to go feast so I'm too lazy to do it here - and not the whole pot).

On this particular board, there are so many draws we are 45-55% against, so many draws that I doubt fold turn anyway that we are even better than that against (namely Ax[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], KQ[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], etc), that I think you guys are disregarding this line too easily.

[plzbenice]

does it really matter if we call and then shove a blank turn or just shove now? first of all we dont know exactly what is a blank turn since there is a lot of straight draws there and all combodraws have odds to call a shove on the turn anyway, against an A-high flushdraw its true but it only has 36-38% equity anyway so were quite happy about getting it in now no?


and folding is never an option here? villain has too marginal setminingodds preflop because hero is also reraising wide?