Two Plus Two Newer Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Newer Archives > PL/NL Texas Hold'em > Micro Stakes

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 11-22-2007, 12:54 AM
P0kerJunkie P0kerJunkie is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 65
Default Re: TPGK oop

Looks just like a busted flush draw to me, seems he would have raised on the flop with QJ or KJ b/c of the flush draw out there. If not, then certainly on the turn. I don't know if i have enough courage to call a shove on the river there, though. A bluff doesn't seem likely at all- he isn't floating you on the flop and turn on this draw heavy of a board...


p.s. can someone fill me in on "valuetowning"? Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-22-2007, 01:06 AM
Guitierez Guitierez is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 241
Default Re: TPGK oop

[ QUOTE ]


p.s. can someone fill me in on "valuetowning"? Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]


"You should be concerned about valuetowning yourself against hands like QJ/KJ."

= you value bet villain's hand
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-22-2007, 01:14 AM
anthb7210p anthb7210p is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 231
Default Re: TPGK oop

I don't bet both the flop and the turn here, one or the other. It is really really close but I lean toward c/c over c/f because of the busted draws.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-22-2007, 01:16 AM
anthb7210p anthb7210p is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 231
Default Re: TPGK oop

[ QUOTE ]
Stack sizes dont allow that. If I bet 11 then I have almost 1/2 of the effective stack in the middle, theres no folding after that point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Villan will also realize this and won't bluff you nearly as much b/c you will get such good odds to call.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-22-2007, 01:25 AM
Profish2285 Profish2285 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Jersey
Posts: 1,936
Default Re: TPGK oop

I dont think the average villain is taking stack sizes into account at all tbh. Its more along the lines of "I have a good hand, raise." I just hate putting in a large part of my stack and then folding, its just bad poker overall imo. I honestly had the intention of going for a c/c but then he over bet shoved and I wimped out. After he did that I gave alot of thought to the other lines but I think c/c is still optimal as long as its not something ridiculous like an overbet shove.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-22-2007, 01:46 AM
P0kerJunkie P0kerJunkie is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 65
Default Re: TPGK oop

i don't see it as close as ant does. I like slimon's original advice way up top- call a small bet (around 1/2 pot), fold to a big bet (pot). flop call and turn call screams flush draw to me in low stakes IME, though a read would have been helpful as many low stakes players shut down on turn if they miss. Really the only hands we should be worried about here are QJ KJ or AJ IMO.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-22-2007, 01:55 AM
whyzze whyzze is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,661
Default Re: TPGK oop

[ QUOTE ]
i don't see it as close as ant does. I like slimon's original advice way up top- call a small bet (around 1/2 pot), fold to a big bet (pot). flop call and turn call screams flush draw to me in low stakes IME, though a read would have been helpful as many low stakes players shut down on turn if they miss. Really the only hands we should be worried about here are QJ KJ or AJ IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not very good imo. It is level 0 thinking. Readless, the size of the bet means nothing because we cannot accurately decipher what level villian is on.

level 0 = big bet means big hand

level 1 = big bet means bluff because he wouldn't bet that much if he wanted a call.

level 2 = big bet could be intentional to look like a bluff when he has a huge hand.



Because we have no information, we cant let the betsize dictate our decision except from a math perspective, however, that also, is objective. So for the most part, when you decide to c/c, the bet size shouldn't be incredibly relevant.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-22-2007, 01:58 AM
Profish2285 Profish2285 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Jersey
Posts: 1,936
Default Re: TPGK oop

I agree with you whyzze upto a point. Obviously a big bet isnt going to "scare" me off or make me think one way or another about the quality of his hand in this case. But from a math point of view, his overbet just greatly reduced the odds we are getting and Im not sure if we are good like 40% of the time or whatever it is that I would need to be to justify calling an overbet shove.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-22-2007, 02:05 AM
tubasteve tubasteve is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 3-bet
Posts: 7,271
Default Re: TPGK oop

[ QUOTE ]
My HUD doesnt come up on ppl until I have 50 hands on them so that was useless too.

[/ QUOTE ]

whats useless is having your hud set up this way. you can definitely get useful baseline reads over like 3-4 orbits.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-22-2007, 02:15 AM
P0kerJunkie P0kerJunkie is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 65
Default Re: TPGK oop

Which of the three levels do you think a typical $50 player is at, whyzze? Readless it seems to make sense not to give a typical $50 player too much credit
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.