Top set Hand(lukewarm content)

Frond · #1 10-23-2007, 01:43 PM

4/8 live. Table is playing fairly loose. Villain is SB who is actually a decent player. Doesn't get out of line too much. Plays a bit loose PF at times but not terrible by any means.

3 limpers to Hero in MP with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] who calls, button in, both blinds in. 6 to the flop.

(5 SBs) Flop comes 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] SB bets, BB calls, one limper calls, Hero raises, folded to SB who 3 bets, BB calls, limper calls, Hero Caps, all call. 4 to the turn

(10.5 BBs) Turn comes the J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] SB bets, folded to Hero who raises, SB 3 bets, Hero Calls. HU

(16.5 BBs) SB says "I bet dark" and bets [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img], River comes the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], hero calls.

PF- I raise this PF here not as a standard play but to mix it up from time to time. Just opted to limp here

Turn-Not sure why I didn't cap the turn, but opinions on this please? I think me not putting a hat on the turn is bad.

From my reads, Villain wouldn't play a draw or a small 2 pair like this. When he bets dark I am pretty sure I know what his holding is and you can spread butter on me, but I call in da laaadge pot! Actually by the turn I think I know what he has. I couldn't fold this on the end for a bet just in the small case he was playing a flopped 2 pair hand or a smaller set. Plus the pot is nnnnyice sized [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

One Outer · #2 10-23-2007, 01:54 PM

Ugggggggggggggggggh

I hate this.

I cap the turn. Since it's a four bet cap, yeah sure. I wouldn't do it at Canterbury, though. And at Canterbury villain would have 57 about 100% of the time here [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Ok, not really. But I cap turn and just call UI on the river if he keeps betting into me.

It is kind of low content. It would be nice if he had 66 and you won. [censored], even 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] got there. Just ugly.

Frond · #3 10-23-2007, 02:05 PM

What is it about CP that is so different than other joints?

Pretty crappy spot to be in. Turn is a no brainer cap though I agree.

One Outer · #4 10-23-2007, 02:09 PM

I've said this somewhere before, but I call it the North American Capitol of Passive. It's just astounding. Raising actually tends to increase the size of fields (true! I swear). They just see lots of money going in and play.

That wasn't really my point though. I'm just saying that given the action if I played this hand at CP I would expect to lose 100% of the time unless I boated up. 100%. The players are so amazingly passive that this action HAS to be a big helping of nuts. Hell, 66 would have gone straight to calldown mode after I capped the flop most of (but not all of) the time.

Frond · #5 10-23-2007, 02:16 PM

That's funny about that. This place is somewhat passive as well just depending on the table. I see lots of players just jumping into pots after an EP raise at times as well here. Yet another example of maxxing our $ from others mistakes.

Pretty pedestrian hand for the most part. Any reason not to cap the turn?

fishyak · #6 10-23-2007, 02:26 PM

PF - no raise is standard for me.
Flop - gotta cap
Turn - you know my view on sets, stealth bombs, gotta cap.
That cap would make river play a lot easier.

But we do need a moment here. What hands to we put SB on and what hands would SB put us on? What's your read on this play?

Let's put a book of tells line of thinking out there:

1) Does this guy tell the truth or lie? I think he tells the truth with his betting pattern.
2) Does he want the last bet from you or not? Do you see any signals that he is trying to cut you a break and you should back off, or does he like taking that last bet from people?
3) Liars play strong when weak and weak when strong, but I don't think this is your guy. Had you seen ANY prior deception on the part of your Villian?

After a turn cap if he still "bets dark" its just a call down. If he checks, same process as above, I don't think he is a c/r kind of guy but look for evidence of prior deception.

So I think there is a worthwhile discussion and introspection for you Tom on the use of tells to help you in this hand.

Rico Suave · #7 10-23-2007, 02:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Turn - you know my view on sets, stealth bombs, gotta cap.
That cap would make river play a lot easier.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am unclear how capping the turn is going to make the river easier to play. Is the river hard to play the way the OP played it?

FWIW, I like the way the OP played the hand, given that this is live 4/8 (which I assume that even good players tend to be more passive than many 2+2ers are used to). When the villain 3-bets the turn, I think we can effectively narrow his hand down to 75 or 66 or 44--which makes means we are behind here over 70% of the time. If you want to start adding in some discounted 86 or 64 combinations, it may make it closer (considering we will hit when behind around 20%). If the pot was still multiway..then yeah, cap it.

--Rico

MikeTheGeek · #8 10-23-2007, 03:37 PM

Think you played it well. If he has the straight you pay but I'd put him on a lower set or a draw (7-9 of hearts). Dark bet was scary so call is probably warranted. I can't let this go at this table personally but that's why I am here learning.

A PF raise could have saved you here unless he is holding JJ, which I doubt as he did not raise PF.

OP did all he could do IMO.

Frond · #9 10-23-2007, 04:58 PM

I suppose if I had capped the turn then he is possibly putting me on a big pair, but maybe not since I didn't bang it PF. I thought that I would have to probably fill up to beat him but not 100% sure here, so the river is a call for sure. I guess the reason why I checked the turn was that 57 was a very likely hand that I was putting him on in the SB at that point. Not the only hand mind you but a very likley one by his action. The river dark bet he had never done yet so when someone bets dark at 4/8 live that is usually Ni Han.

mikeca · #10 10-24-2007, 01:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is SB who is actually a decent player. Doesn't get out of line too much. Plays a bit loose PF at times but not terrible by any means.

[/ QUOTE ]

When a live player that meets that description 3 bets the flop, calls my cap and then leads into me on the turn, he has a strong hand. If I raise and he 3 bets the turn, he has a really strong hand.

Now maybe he has a lower set, he is hopelessly misplaying AA or something like that. I would definitely call him down, but I don't think capping the turn makes any sense here. I don't think I would raise the turn either here against a player that I thought was "decent".