10NL , QQ full, how to play river?

[highsteptd]

Ok, I absolutely know that I overbet the river. I think the flop and turn streets were played fine. I have no reads on anyone at the table, as I sat down not long ago. How much was appropriate on the river?

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.05/$0.10
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $0.35</font>, 3 folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($1.1, 3 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $0.5</font>, Button calls, BB calls.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($2.6, 3 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $0.5</font>, Button folds, BB calls.

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($3.6, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets $2</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises all-in $14.5</font>, BB folds.
Uncalled bets: $12.5 returned to Hero.

Results:
Final pot: $7.6

[Student Caine]

Actually I do not like your flop or turn play at all.

Semi-Grunch:

Flop: We have a huge hand on the flop and we need to punish made hands (KX) and draws (both flush and OESD) for hanging around. At this point we are committed to getting our stack in the middle, so we need to make the bets necessary to start building the pot. That being the case I bet at least 3/4 pot here. There are two opponents up against us here, hopefully one (or both) has something that they are willing to call a reasonable cbet with.

Turn: We are still committed here. I absolutely hate the .50 bet. In my opinion we either need to continue with our line that we are on and cbet or show total weakness by checking to the button and hoping for a bluff, and then either re-rasing here or donking the river (given the strength of our hand if we do choose to show weakness here I think that we want to donk the river in hopes that one of the two other players improves and pays us off).

I personally bet out here at 3/4-full pot. I want to get money in the pot with this hand.

Alternatively, if we do not like a large cbet we can bet in the neighborhood of $1.50. This makes the call slightly more enticing for flush draws and we can get paid off if they hit the river. However, we have to be fairly sure that one of these guys is on a flush draw, otherwise we have simply cost ourselves $1.00-$2.00

River: As played your raise all-in is not the end of the world. Villains at 5NL soemtimes sense this as a bluff and will follow you. Realistically if we do not shove here, we are probably going to get called on a raise of about $2-3.

A trap that we all fall into from time to time is wanting to extract maximum value from our big hands so badly that we sell our hands off for nothing or put ourselves in a position to be drawn out on and stack off when we are beaten. Remember that sometimes we hit a monster and noone else has anything to play with, which sucks. If we use a standard line of betting our strong hands weakly in a desparate attempt to extrct maximum value, we will over the long run, actually cause the opposite to happen and extract less value from these big payday hands.

[TTStrangler]

Your first mistake in this hand did not happen at the river. Raise more preflop. Flop and especially the turn bets were way too small. Flop should have been .9-1 then I'd follow turn with a 75-85% PSB. If Villain was still with you at the river, pushing would have been more reasonable.

Also, this board is mainly 6-max, there is a Full ring forum that would be more appropriate.

[TTStrangler]

Very nice explanation Caine

[The Brikk]

nothing wrong with your pre-flop play i think. the bet on the flop was a bit to low for me but reasonnable, i would of bet something like .75 to 1$. your turn bet was too low, i would of bet around the pot. and on the river you want villain to call not to fold to your bet so i would of minimum raise or 3x his bet.

[highsteptd]

Thanks for the responses, great input.

I knew very well I played it poorly. Haha.

I guess I played too slowly at first...and too fast at the end.

Particularly good resp, Caine

[mr_npiv]

extract more value on the turn &amp; make a more reasonable value bet on the river.