Fold trips on the river?

[dsaxton]

Currently, I have never folded trips for one bet in stud, but if it is ever the right play, I can't think of a better spot than here. My opponent is tight passive, and raised me showing four cards to a straight. Regardless, folding trips sucks. Call the river anyways?

7 Card Stud High ($5/$10), Ante $0.50, Bring-In $2 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 2: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 6: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises

4th Street - (4.00 SB)

Seat 3: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (3.50 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___raises

6th Street - (7.50 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises
Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___calls

River - (11.50 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___bets
Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___?

Total pot: (13.50 BB)

[tuds38]

Eh... I probably still call, but only because 2 J's and a 6 are dead. Him raising after you c/r 5th and led 6th sucks a lot, but maybe he just has 9's or 10's up and is an idiot.

When you think about what (logical) starting hands he needed to have in order to have the straight, it's only 3-flushes with the Js or 6s or 9-10-J. You said he's tight-passive but he still bet 5th instead of taking the free card if he was on a straight draw, so he may just have 2-pair (or trip 10's or something [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]).

also that sucks that he caught your case 8 to maybe make his straight

[Andy B]

I've made worse payoffs. You've really never folded trips? Even I've done that.

[docholiday420]

I wouldn't raise on third rolled up. I don't, I like to add deception, and why eliminate extra money you can win and possibly end the hand right there. So I like your raise on fifth that's when i raise rolled up, after the betting doubles.


But since you did raise i think it's easier to assume his starting hand was a pair and his raises are more scare plays at the obvious strait or he made two pair, along with 6 and J out you have to weigh that against his strait. Also with all that money you are almost jusitified to call the river, if wrong you lost another BB, but if you are right "You would have been repsonsible for saving the lives of millions of registered voters" a star to anyone who gets that reference.
I'd call trip all the way to the river, hoping to fill and look if you lost that hand unlucky play not bad play.

[2461Badugi]

There are some serious devaluation issues if Ghostbusters is worth a star now.

[PoorLawyer]

[ QUOTE ]
There are some serious devaluation issues if Ghostbusters is worth a star now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, quote way too easy.

Call the river. I was in a similar spot yesterday rolled up against 4 suited on board, figured i'd make the crying call, and a moment later I'm dragging a big pot. You don't have to be correct very often...even a tight passive player has their less than stellar moments.

[Rush17]

I like your 3rd and 4th street plays in this hand, especially seeing that there were a few limpers to you on 3rd already...and then you decided to be deceptive again by just smooth calling 4th. Me likey very much! But, because you played your hand unconventional to what is considered the norm, I think that your opponents are going to have an even harder time putting you on roll ups, and because of that, it may cause them to misplay/overplay their own hands. For that reason, you have to call the river; It's only one bet in a big pot and you do have a strong hand despite the fact that you weren't fortunate enough to improve on it even further.

[Bill Murphy]

Well, I'll guess he had the other two jacks and put you on a spade draw. I think there's enough of a chance he has T9 down there that you can prolly cry-call.

I see that you DID in fact call, so what happened? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Anyone else think that villain's play on 6th indicates a different hand than his play on 3-5th did, and that he might not actually be tight-passive, at least all the time?

Interesting hand, thanks for posting it. I love the raise on 3rd, and I think raising on 4th would be what I'd do too. Screams "big pair in the hole" IMO.

But the way you played it was fine too.

EDIT Meh, actually after looking at it some more I think he did start w/T9 & put you on spades. You played it fine, s'long as you called 7th.

[cgrohman]

I raise 4th

[dsaxton]

[ QUOTE ]
I raise 4th

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason that I didn't raise 4th was that I felt seat 3's most likely hands were a pair of 6's or a four flush. If I raise Seat 4, Seat 3 will correctly fold a pair of 6's when drawing nearly dead, and I win an extra bet from Seat 4, as he is very passive and would not 3-bet without at least two pair, which he probably doesn't have. If I call, I keep seat 3 in the pot and collect a small bet from him when he has 6's (the same bet I collect from Seat 4 by raising), and give myself an opportunity to potentially collect multiple big bets from two players on later streets with trips or a well-concealed boat. If he has a four-flush, then I will be in a good position to build a pot on 4th by just calling, since he will most likely raise, Seat 4 will call or reraise (probably just call), at which point I can 3-bet or cap. If I raise and he has a 4-flush, he will just call or raise. If he raises, Seat 4 might even fold tens when faced with two bets (which I don't want), and if he just calls, Seat 3 will also just call and close the betting. In either scenario I lose value.

Another consideration is long-term deception, as I would usually just call in this situation with most of my hands. Calling makes this and future hands more difficult to read.