(Simple?) 3-bet Scenario

[curious123]

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You are almost never doominated with 75s.

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fyi 55+ dominate 75s. Contrary to popular belief, it's not just a kicker concept.

[FiSheYe]

Hey Panzer I didn't want to come off rude, but the stakes we're talking about might just be over your head... I totally agree with you if we talk about a good solid nit, but nobody in the higher games that is declared as a good solid, agressive opponent will be such a nit... If you will only call my reraise with strong hands (4bet AA, KK, QQ, maybe AK; but only call with 88-JJ, AJs+, AQo+) then I will know what you have and I'll crush you easily.
Let's say the board comes down K73, you will rarely have AK or KQ, so by betting I will make you fold out 88-JJ and AJ/AQ.. If you check-raise me and are so nitty then I know for sure that I am beat and can fold my hand every time. Unfortunately poker isn't that easy and good players won't play in such a exploitable manner. Having a wide range and keep your opponents guessing while you can put them on exact ranges will give you a tremendous edge over your competition... Unfortunately this is very old news and all good players implemented this or even if they play a reasonable hand range and we can narrow hands down preflop, they will occasionally mix it up or make plays postflop, therefore it's still not ABC poker.

Case closed.

[Lefort]

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This is a very good way to form a strategy post.

I would say: KJo > A2s > 88 > 75s.

An interesting follow-up question might be how this changes if you're HJ instead and have called the 3-bet OOP.

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[Moonshine]

poor panzer is gonna take the knowledge he has acquired here now and go dump 9 buyins at .5/1

[Daliman]

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I think the other 3 should be behind the 88s just because 88 has so much more showdown value then any of the other hands and you are in position and are going to be checked to almost every time.

Im pretty surprised to hear arguments for other hands.

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Yes, but 88 has a very hard time getting to showdown also. like 75% of flops have an over.


Personally, I say 57s, A2s, 88, KJo.

57s- Because if I flop big, he'll never see it coming, and I can stack him from far ahead, and I can also get away easily if I cbet/miss.
A2s- Ace of course has it's own value, but if you get action to it, it's usually toast, but if you happen to flop a few wheel cards or FD, you can still bet hard and probably not be too far behind if you get shoved on and decide to call, ( depends on when, of course)
88- Fairly straight forward, although getting shoved on on a undercard flop sucks unless you have a straight draw. Otherwise, you can cbet flop and reassess from there, and if I get action, I'm usually folding. Obv, you can set up and valuetown, but I am far more partial to 88's value calling PF than RR'ing, and will call only far more, ( but that;s really not the point).

KJ sucks- Unless you flop 2 pair, trips, or a straight/draw, if you get action, you are very likely behind, and WAY behind. I just don't like it, ESPECIALLY out of the SB. If in position, it's better, ( isn't it always?), but even still, I hate it. If flop is KT4 rainbow and you cbet standard, folding to a raise can be very hard, ( although it often shouldn't be)



FWIW, I'm nitting along at 21/16 in 6max now, and 25-50 has always given me fits, although I'm a slight winner at it.



EDIT: Oops, for some reason I read this as being in the SB. I don't care to think about if it changes my opinion, but I;d guess it would.

I need to go to bed.

[jay_shark]

Some very bad answers .

Pocket 8's is close in value with k-jo but I believe 8's are better . For the same reason pocket j's are better than A-K and pocket tens are better than A-Q . Using deductive reasoning , it isn't a far fetch to believe that pocket 8's should have more value than K-jo .

Similarly , 7-5s is closer in value with A-2s although neither of them should be preferred over k-j or 8's . I probably chose 7-5 suited as your additional outs(straight draws) should compensate for all the times you lose to a better flush with it .

8's > k-j > 7-5s > A-2s

[Isura]

I can't believe the hate for 88 and A2s. Those are very playable to have IP imo. Its not like we have to bet/call with 88 on QJx flops or A2 on A84r flops. I think the KJo vs 75s is interesting, and I'd take KJo IP and 75s OOP since oop you can put in the last bet on the flop with marginal equity hands (gutters etc). So I'd say 88 > A2s > KJo > 75s