(Simple?) 3-bet Scenario

[Jman28]

From watching and talking to a lot of players, I think the answers to this question will vary a lot.

You are in an average 25/50 game against a good aggressive winning player.

5k stacks.

He opens to 175 in the HJ. Hero raises to 625 on the button. Folded to HJ who calls.

Now you get to pick your hand:

Would you rather have KJo, 75s, 88, or A2s (in order)?

Can you explain why?

How much does it matter?

[king_of_drafts]

75s since it seems most capable of flopping a hand you can bet/call or b/f without much thought. A2s obv has more flops that give it a lotta showdown value, so that is a close second.

KJo rarely flops something you are comfortable with, 88 doesn't have good redraws and the deception you get from reraising pre isn't worth it at 100 bbs.

[kotkis]

This is a very good way to form a strategy post.

I would say: KJo > A2s > 88 > 75s.

An interesting follow-up question might be how this changes if you're HJ instead and have called the 3-bet OOP.

[jsnipes28]

i think the more aggro and the more shorthanded the game is, you'd prefer to have a hand like KJ where you can flop a pair and just say "f-it" and get it in.

i agree w/ kod tho in fuller games

[Triumph36]

[ QUOTE ]
75s since it seems most capable of flopping a hand you can bet/call or b/f without much thought. A2s obv has more flops that give it a lotta showdown value, so that is a close second.

KJo rarely flops something you are comfortable with, 88 doesn't have good redraws and the deception you get from reraising pre isn't worth it at 100 bbs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd still take 88 over everything, I think - how often does 75s actually flop anything worth bet-calling? I might be an equity fish here.

88, 75s, A2s, KJo

obv depends how often your opponent folds to 3 bets and what his calling range is and how often he stacks off with middle pair-ish type things post-flop as well as CR bluffs.

[Madzger]

[ QUOTE ]

how often does 75s actually flop anything worth bet-calling?

[/ QUOTE ]

Suited 1-Gapper
7.01% OESD+
10.63% FD+
1.15% OESD+ & FD+
3.49% TwoPair+
_____
22.29%

OESD+ = oesd, double gutter or straight (but no FD+)
FD+ = flush draw or flush (but no OESD+)
TwoPair+ = 2pair, trips, fh, quads

haven't calculated this myself, but source should be reliable

edit:
and for A2s:
Suited 3-Gapper
0.83% Straight
11.63% FD+
0.15% Straight & FD+
3.49% TwoPair+
--------------------
16.10%

88:
Pocket Pair
11.76% Set+
--------------------
11.76%

that's obviously not an answer to the question

[catcher193]

[ QUOTE ]
i think the more aggro and the more shorthanded the game is, you'd prefer to have a hand like KJ where you can flop a pair and just say "f-it" and get it in.

i agree w/ kod tho in fuller games

[/ QUOTE ]
agree

88

[FoxwoodsFiend]

I prefer KJ and it's not even close. I think back when people played tighter/didn't stack off as light in reraised pots that KJ was a typical trouble hand in rr pots, but these days you flop a K and you're giddy and if you flop a J you're elated. A2o is probably the worst because despite this trend, I still don't think people screw around on ace high flops in rr pots too often (obviously some people will raise air there or whatever but i find they're much more reluctant than on J high flops where they can put you on AK and play at you).

88 vs 57s is close for me, I think I prefer 57s but just because i tend to find it to be more playable

Just saw we're in pos, not OOP. Obviously changes a lot. Will get back to this when not multitablin on crappy laptop

[sauce123]

88>75s>A2s>KJo