25/50 I Guess This is Why They Call me a Station

[xorbie]

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Im not worried about the flush. I put him on 3-3, 10-10 or air.

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So basically this guy sucks is what you're saying?

[Keiju]

Your pre-flop call is debatable, so is your flop call but obv your planning a bluff on turn/river here.

You hit the 3 but that bet size is still a bluff id say, you dont have anything worse calling except a flush draw. You think villain knows your setting up a bluff as its a very common line you took.

Then villain, out of nowhere takes a very strong line, and i can see why you thought it was so dodgy.

If villain thinks you have a hand, the only thing that makes sense is villain puts you on pocket pair JJ+ or 9T-AT, this is the only thought that would make villain check the turn and raise with a hand like TT-AA.

Villains line is mainly TT-AA or air. If this is a flush its VERY badly played.

TT-AA and flush been unlikely because of the line he took, he has air most of the time so good tough call i say.

Oh yeh and 33 makes sense here but dont wanna believe it as we have a 3 as well.

[xorbie]

Honestly I think a flush draw makes up a lot of his range. It's a really bad board to double barrel on if he thinks you are a station (which you clearly are).

If I'm villain with [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img][img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] here, particulary A4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or A5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] where my hand might even be good UI I'm loving a cr because you're going to bet all your air hands and check back most of your pairs, so I get to put money in when I'm ahead, and if you do have a hand you feel comfortable calling down with, at least I have outs.

Sure, he could have random overcards and follow the same reasoning, but if you're going to have him just randomly bluff with 78o or something, you should at least put [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] into his range.

[Nezzar]

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Im not worried about the flush. I put him on 3-3, 10-10 or air.

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So basically this guy sucks is what you're saying?

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No. Im saying that a good aggro player (generally) dont play flushdraws, overpairs or TPGK like this.

[Keiju]

But the reason hero's line is a common one to bluff with is because its prob the most common line taken with most made hands as well.

if this is so, then why is villain semi-bluffing with FD into a likely made hand. Hero's bet is usually with 9T-AT, 44-AA sometimes overcards/FD/SD, these draws would prob check behind (but not fold) though as villain has shown a little strength pre-flop and on flop, suggesting he will prob call on turn.

If villain is semi-bluffing the turn, that raise is too small to push anything out but air most of the time.

Villain may indeed have hit the flush on river but if hes raising the turn i prefer to shove as there isnt enough implied odds on the river, and the raise dosnt give villain enough fold equity on turn. Like i said earlier, if its a flush its badly played and so hard to read.

[xorbie]

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But the reason hero's line is a common one to bluff with is because its prob the most common line taken with most made hands as well.

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Not really. As you can see, Hero will often call the flop with A hi just to take it away on the turn. 44-99 type hands are generally better served just checking this turn without a ton of history of both getting it in super light.

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If villain is semi-bluffing the turn, that raise is too small to push anything out but air most of the time.


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Exactly. Fold out air, keep yourself with a nice pot bet to get paid off on if you hit your draw.

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No. Im saying that a good aggro player (generally) dont play flushdraws, overpairs or TPGK like this.


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Again, this would be really, really bad. There are 3 combos of 33 (forget for now that Hero has a 3), 3 more of TT. That's 6 total combinations of hands that villain might have which aren't air. If he wanted to balance here, he'd have to be bluffing with probably about 2, maybe 3 combinations. Total. That means AK[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], AK[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], AK[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], and NOTHING ELSE AT ALL.

So no, you're wrong. Villain should be bluffing here fairly often, but playing an overpair like this is super super super standard if Hero is prone to floating (clearly the case) and especially so if he will felt lightly (also clearly the case).

[LBK]

I don't understand how you can call there. I really don't. Couldn't he have Q10 or any combo of Q? You can't even beat a small pocket pair bluff there. Terrible call IMO but what do I know..

[fslexcduck]

I don't yet know how I feel about the call, simply because I don't have enough guts to do soemthing like this. And by something I mean bet the turn expecting to get c/r and back it with my stack. I'd usually just check the turn.

When villain bets this flop, T22, he expects JMan to float a good % of the time, so when he checks and jman bets a seemingly innocuous turn, it means very little. So he check/raises. Jman knows all this, etc etc.

The river heart is somewhat worrisome, but the thing is - his plan the whole time on the flop was to bet, get floated, and bluff check-raises (mind you he could have AA or KK or TT or something but I'm just giving one plausible example which i think is a decently strong possibility). So if that was his plan from the start, and he happened to have 2 hearts well that's just unlucky.

So I think this call really comes down to UTG's opening range - if it's very wide, I like it a lot. The tighter it is, well, obviously, the worse it becomes.

[JMa]

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Im not worried about the flush. I put him on 3-3, 10-10 or air.

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So basically this guy sucks is what you're saying?

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No. Im saying that a good aggro player (generally) dont play flushdraws, overpairs or TPGK like this.

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isnt 33 = AA?

[KRANTZ]

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This is a very bad river to call on btw.

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I was folding a blank river fwiw.

I usually check turn, but I was experimenting with a new style that session.

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why were you folding a blank river and calling a flush making river? that doesn't make too much sense to me, i'd MUCH rather call a blank river.