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  #11  
Old 01-04-2007, 11:16 AM
southerndog southerndog is offline
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Default Re: Weird hand. $20/$40 Stud High.


I think this thread could have ended with Andy's post.
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  #12  
Old 01-04-2007, 12:12 PM
*TT* *TT* is offline
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Default Re: Weird hand. $20/$40 Stud High.

[ QUOTE ]

I think this thread could have ended with Andy's post.

[/ QUOTE ]

I concur. Not raising is a crime against humanity and will result in a hanging in Iraq with a security guard taping the proceedings on his camera phone.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
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  #13  
Old 01-04-2007, 06:35 PM
LandonM LandonM is offline
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Default Re: Weird hand. $20/$40 Stud High.

I read this again and now I will say that I strongly disagree with the peanut gallery who says raise in this situation.

Same cards in another situation, maybe a raise is good, but not in this one; where the gameplay history of the opponents suggests that your raise will do nothing more than elicit action for your hand that is almost definitely 2rd best, and just as likely to be 3rd best when the money goes in.

If you guys are padding pots in situations like this, post your Stars SN's so I can play with you as often as possible.
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  #14  
Old 01-04-2007, 08:47 PM
Andy B Andy B is offline
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Default Re: Weird hand. $20/$40 Stud High.

Andy B

Bring it on.
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  #15  
Old 01-04-2007, 08:56 PM
dsaxton dsaxton is offline
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Default Re: Weird hand. $20/$40 Stud High.

Landon, it isn't a value raise.
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  #16  
Old 01-04-2007, 10:43 PM
southerndog southerndog is offline
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Default Re: Weird hand. $20/$40 Stud High.

[ QUOTE ]
I read this again and now I will say that I strongly disagree with the peanut gallery who says raise in this situation.

Same cards in another situation, maybe a raise is good, but not in this one; where the gameplay history of the opponents suggests that your raise will do nothing more than elicit action for your hand that is almost definitely 2rd best, and just as likely to be 3rd best when the money goes in.

If you guys are padding pots in situations like this, post your Stars SN's so I can play with you as often as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

LoL. Yours first.
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  #17  
Old 01-05-2007, 02:28 AM
LandonM LandonM is offline
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Default Re: Weird hand. $20/$40 Stud High.

[ QUOTE ]
Landon, it isn't a value raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

It may not be intended as a value raise, but from what you've described thus far about your opponents and the hand, that's basically all a raise is going to accomplish without achieving your goal of 'trimming the field' and you being under the tires from both oncoming lanes with your kings.

Of course, unless one is suggesting to raise just for the philosophy of it, I cannot see how this is the best possible decision given the very, very real possibility that you have 2nd or 3rd best hand, and two opponents who have shown an unwillingness to fold.

For the "raise" camp:
Why is "raise" best in this situation when holding a hand that is likely 2 or 3 dogged against opponents who are unlikely to fold?
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  #18  
Old 01-05-2007, 02:53 AM
Andy B Andy B is offline
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Default Re: Weird hand. $20/$40 Stud High.

dsaxton said that the Asian guy was very loose. He did not say, however, that he would call two bets cold with just anything on fifth street. He might fold a scraggly pair with that Ace for the two bets, and we really want him to. Even if he doesn't have that much, getting him out has value, and it won't cost anything extra most of the time.

And even if he never folds, raising fifth may have value anyway:

Ks Kc 7c 4d 3h 0.349
As 9c 9d 6d 5h 0.199
Qs Qc 6c 2d 2h 0.452

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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  #19  
Old 01-05-2007, 03:29 AM
LandonM LandonM is offline
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Default Re: Weird hand. $20/$40 Stud High.

That's pretty a compelling reason for a raise, however, I think it all boils down to what the read on the Asian dude is, since we know that Mr. 2's isn't going anywhere. I'm still convinced that I would lay this down in this situation, with the facts as they've been presented thus far.

The raise definitely serves to define a bit better, but this would scare me:

[ QUOTE ]

I believe I saw the asian guy drawing to overcards against a paired doorcard. The guy with open 2's goes to the river with any pair or (obviously) better.

[/ QUOTE ]

... particularly if the aces were made, which is a flip at this point as to whether they are or aren't.
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  #20  
Old 01-05-2007, 04:25 AM
Andy B Andy B is offline
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Default Re: Weird hand. $20/$40 Stud High.

Did the Asian guy call a raise to draw to his over-cards? I'm guessing no. A lot of folks will screw around when it's "cheap," but when a tight player raises a paired door card on the expensive street, that does tend to slow them down a bit.

Folding is a pretty clear mistake given our presumed equity and the size of the pot. I don't think that calling is a big mistake, and on the off chance I've missed something, raising can't be that big of a mistake either. You're asking us for our handles so you can follow us around on PS and take our money. The money doesn't come from people who make small mistakes in debatable situations. The money comes from the folks who call two bets with (63)3.
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