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#1
10-26-2006, 03:55 AM
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Don\'t stack-a-donk the good players, guys
This just happened to me and I thought it bears mentioning that we call the line stack-a-donk for very good reason.
When a very good player has position on you, I think it's a terrible line to take, personally. Villain was 13/13/infinite over 110 hands or so and I have no idea what he thought I would call with here. It's certainly possible I am float/stealing here but I never have AJ or some nonsense that might consider calling his push, because I check behind almost every made hand here, and only betting a steal or a very strong hand. I'd only call his push with KK+ or a 5, and KK+ is just obscenely unlikely for me here. I was 19/15 and I assume he uses PT so he should know this. Full Tilt Poker No Limit Holdem Ring game Blinds: $1/$2 5 players Converter Stack sizes: UTG: $333.05 CO: $202 Bilbo: $381.90 SB: $467.15 BB: $165.90 Pre-flop: (5 players) Bilbo is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises to $7</font>, Bilbo calls, 2 folds. Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($17, 2 players) <font color="#cc0000">CO bets $17</font>, Bilbo calls. Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($51, 2 players) CO checks, <font color="#cc0000">Bilbo bets $25</font>, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises all-in $178</font>, Bilbo calls. River: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($407, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $407) Results: Final pot: $407 CO showed Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Am I wrong? Does anyone here think Villain played this hand fine and was just cold-decked? 
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#2
10-26-2006, 03:57 AM
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Re: Don\'t stack-a-donk the good players, guys
i think if you have a J here you sometimes put him on a draw and call, also there are a lot of people with good stats that play bad postflop, so unless you two have played a lot he shouldnt assume you are "good" IMO
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#3
10-26-2006, 04:02 AM
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Re: Don\'t stack-a-donk the good players, guys
Depends on you actually. I'd say your wrong generally speaking though. You could easily either be just floating here or have a flush draw in which case you would have bet the turn, he woulda check raised and you wouldn't have come here with this hand.
Was he cold decked ? Maybe a little. against a 19/15 this could be played many many ways, but a lot of those will end up with villian all in or losing at least half his stack and not happy about it. Honestly, what can he put you on ? JJ is unlikely cuz you prolly reraise with it, 55 is highly unlikely. Basically you need 56s or something and from your stats it doesn't appear you play that you cold call very often. Probably his best bet was to bet turn, then check call river if flush missed or check fold if it hit. In a nutshell, this is kinda silly. Playing hands like this against 2+2ers isn't JUST to do the stack a donk. It stops floats, and since you apparently will never call with AJ here its a great way to bluff with a flush draw too isn't it ? Think about that one from now on when a good 2+2er c/r's you [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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#4
10-26-2006, 04:03 AM
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Re: Don\'t stack-a-donk the good players, guys
[ QUOTE ]
i think if you have a J here you sometimes put him on a draw and call, also there are a lot of people with good stats that play bad postflop, so unless you two have played a lot he shouldnt assume you are "good" IMO [/ QUOTE ] My point is that I never have a J here. I check behind practically any J.
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#7
10-26-2006, 04:13 AM
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Re: Don\'t stack-a-donk the good players, guys
[ QUOTE ]
Depends on you actually. I'd say your wrong generally speaking though. You could easily either be just floating here or have a flush draw in which case you would have bet the turn, he woulda check raised and you wouldn't have come here with this hand. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, but I FOLD those hands to the check-raise, and this is very bad for him, unless I fold precisely A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], which I again, given the action, NEVER have. This post is not about whether I won the hand. [ QUOTE ] In a nutshell, this is kinda silly. Playing hands like this against 2+2ers isn't JUST to do the stack a donk. It stops floats, and since you apparently will never call with AJ here its a great way to bluff with a flush draw too isn't it ? Think about that one from now on when a good 2+2er c/r's you [/ QUOTE ] Again, a J is not a very likely holding for me. I don't like to bluff with made hands. The only made hands I might bluff with are 22-44 [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] If my only reasonable combos are monsters and steals, then he should check-call most of the time. I agree he can't do much about losing a lot with our respective hands, but I don't think he should have gotten stacked. I also think that sometimes check-raising the turn is fine, when I can have a much wider range that might call. When the board is paired it is very unlikely that I call with worse hands.
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#8
10-26-2006, 04:15 AM
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Re: Don\'t stack-a-donk the good players, guys
[ QUOTE ]
this is an incredibly easy turn bet for villain unless he thinks you are floating, and even then c-c is better [/ QUOTE ] I agree, mostly because 2-barreling flops like this with air or flushdraws is very powerful, because players with stats like mine often call paired flops with a lot of PPs just to see if the PFR will bet the turn.
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#10
10-26-2006, 04:47 AM
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Re: Don\'t stack-a-donk the good players, guys
Stack a donk line I've used on soooo many tags and it is a very good play.
In this instance it's horrible because it's a huge overbet and he is way ahead / way behind and never gets called by a worse hand. But the line in general is great. Stop making posts saying "3 betting the fish light is bad" and then showing a results oriented hand where some idiot bluffs his stack off with AQ into AK high. Both concepts certainly have their merits and benefits / downsides. Besides, unless you're two barrelling every hand you need to use the stack a donk line from time to time.
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