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#11
11-02-2007, 04:06 PM
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Re: NL400 SICK laydown with KK somewhat deep
[ QUOTE ]
I dont lay this down, if he has AA he isnt scared of any card and I think he will check behind that on turn to get bluffvalue or easier get paid on river. [/ QUOTE ] lol, that's so horrible. if i had AA i play the same. there is ton of money, your hand (hero's) is super duper transparent, and if an K Q or A falls, it will make me cry/kill my action, in that order. i don't mind winning 275 bb without seeing a SD. 
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#12
11-02-2007, 05:23 PM
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Re: NL400 SICK laydown with KK somewhat deep
I've played very few hands at this level, so whilst I'm sceptical about your certainty it's AA, I'll take your word for it.
However, having decided: [ QUOTE ] Preflop clearly says "aces" but I can pretty much call for set value [/ QUOTE ] why are you then calling on the flop when you *miss* your set?
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#13
11-02-2007, 06:50 PM
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Re: NL400 SICK laydown with KK somewhat deep
why are you then calling on the flop when you *miss* your set?
[/ QUOTE ] That's a valid point, but I didn't like only call for setvalue, but I just mentioned it because it shows that this is an easy call preflop. And for those saying I don't have the set odds, what do you mean? If we put him on AA and know he is going to stack off, I am getting them. But I guess folding the flop would be the right alternative, It's just so freaking hard [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] But then come to think of it, I could see a point for felting it the way played, when he has AA I have 4 split outs on the board and 2 outs to win. I asked him what he had after the laydown and he said KK...
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#14
11-02-2007, 06:53 PM
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Re: NL400 SICK laydown with KK somewhat deep
[ QUOTE ]
why are you then calling on the flop when you *miss* your set? [/ QUOTE ] That's a valid point, but I didn't like only call for setvalue, but I just mentioned it because it shows that this is an easy call preflop. And for those saying I don't have the set odds, what do you mean? If we put him on AA and know he is going to stack off, I am getting them. But I guess folding the flop would be the right alternative, It's just so freaking hard [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] But then come to think of it, I could see a point for felting it the way played, when he has AA I have 4 split outs on the board and 2 outs to win. I asked him what he had after the laydown and he said KK... [/ QUOTE ] What split outs? 9 to 1 is not enough to look for a set preflop.
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#16
11-02-2007, 07:13 PM
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Re: NL400 SICK laydown with KK somewhat deep
7.5 to 1 to make a set, with the chance of getting of getting set over setted and a very small chance it's just a random bluff and he shuts down I do think my preflop call is justified, but I do think the best line is to fold the flop. Those who say felt it, what hand range do you put villain on?
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#17
11-02-2007, 09:07 PM
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Re: NL400 SICK laydown with KK somewhat deep
Metagame call? Really, an important thing to know is MP3's stats. If MP3 is a 60/30/3, this becomes trivial shovage. In this case, you ISO'd a donk [your range: AT+, KJ+, 88+], BB reisod you [AK, AQs, JJ+]. Even if not, I really don't want to fold here against relatively unknown. On this board, we have the second nuts. BB can definitely 4-bet Queens and AK preflop and his continuation is pretty standard. If we c/f flop, we're folding the best of it often. The only time in this hand where it really looks like we're beat is on the turn. However, commiting 40% of effective stack and folding mega-brick turn is sickening. Honestly, I think you just have to go broke.
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#18
11-03-2007, 12:25 AM
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Re: NL400 SICK laydown with KK somewhat deep
Agree with other posts above; if you're gonna call the flop, you can't fold the turn. It is better to call or raise the flop with the intention of getting it all-in, or folding the flop if you are that worried that he has aces.
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#20
12-01-2007, 04:51 PM
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Re: NL400 SICK laydown with KK somewhat deep
I see 3 options for this hand that are dependent on whether you think the opponent can have anything but aces.
1) If I had a strong feeling he had aces, I'd just fold preflop. Really nothing wrong with that. 2) If I think there's a decent chance this could be another hand that isn't aces, I'd call and figure out how to get my money in on any non-ace board post. I'm not pushing cause unless this player is awful, he's not calling w/ less than KK, but you might extract more value by checking flop (possibly checkrasing, possibly check/calling flop getting it in on the turn). 3) You think that opponent might have AA, but his postflop play is so tranparent that you'll be able to figure out on the flop whether they have AA or not. If this was your read, then fold on the flop. There is no need to put in 2/5ths of your stack before deciding you are beat in this hand.
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