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  #11  
Old 11-19-2007, 11:11 AM
SGspecial SGspecial is offline
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Default Re: Stars Microrazzament

[ QUOTE ]
The 4th street call was the raise no one bothered to put in, so it's a wash.

On 5th the raise irritated me and I called.

On 6th, I had the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought this thread was going to be about a tournament!?. I want my money back! In spite of this I will comment on the hand. 4th st is really interesting to me because the standard play is to fold here (as Rusty explained) and vs. solid players it will be marginally -EV to call, even getting in for cheap. The fact that you feel it should have been a complete bet on 3rd st which you would have called isn't relevant since you get a 2nd chance to decide what to do. It's like if someone slowplays AA in HE and I have 33, villain bets into a QJ3 flop and I fold b/c had he raised PF I would have folded.

I'm not sure if hero had a note on seat 5 as being horrible, but it's pretty common to find horrible players in razz esp. at 0.50/1 and below. So hero may have made a marginally bad call on 4th, but stuck it out in a hand where she was rewarded handsomely by villain's 4BB nuclear meltdown on the river. Call me results oriented if you like, but just knowing that this possibility exists should encourage you to stick in hands longer in marginal situations to get paid off by the donks.

Now on 5th st, listen to Rusty....
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  #12  
Old 11-19-2007, 11:27 AM
RustyBrooks RustyBrooks is offline
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Default Re: Stars Microrazzament

Well, your diamonds and straight outs are pretty live so calling 4th isn't too bad... oh, wrong game. Playing stud/8 makes razz more confusing, I'm always noting suits and stuff that don't matter.

It's true, against the worst opponents I think you can call 4th. I played with someone the other day that I wanted to have position on SO BADLY but it was impossible to move, probably because of the 4 deep waiting list, probably because this guy was at the table. Any 2 cards under 8, and he was in the pot. This makes folding 4th when you catch a mild brick impossible, because a lot of the time you still have the best hand. I have a note on him where he called a completion on 3rd with a brick in the hole (K I think) and then called 4th 3-way when he paired a down card. He bluffed 5th 6th and 7th - I called him down with something really ridiculous like a T and won.

He made 50bb while I was sitting there. I made about 25 so I can't complain. That guy owes me some freakin sklansky bucks though. Several times I'd have a nice made low on 5th and he'd runner-runner me for a better one.
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  #13  
Old 11-19-2007, 12:58 PM
SGspecial SGspecial is offline
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Default Re: Stars Microrazzament

Who was it, Kenny Tran?
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  #14  
Old 11-19-2007, 01:01 PM
RustyBrooks RustyBrooks is offline
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Default Re: Stars Microrazzament

I don't know but I suspect he'll be showing up in a few days to make a stats check post.
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  #15  
Old 11-19-2007, 02:54 PM
Praxising Praxising is offline
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Default Re: Stars Microrazzament

[ QUOTE ]
Who was it, Kenny Tran?

[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds like Rusty got "Fuched" if he was on stars. There's a couple players like this, I think their VPIP is like 47% - but they aren't donks, they are actually big winners. It's like playing Sammy Farha Razz.
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  #16  
Old 11-19-2007, 03:35 PM
tinkerman tinkerman is offline
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Default Re: Stars Microrazzament

[ QUOTE ]

On 5th the raise irritated me and I called.


[/ QUOTE ]

The 5th street raise may have irritated you but was a correct move. Partly to ensure you fold (which you didn't) and partly he must have thought the other player had a bad hole card due to limping in.
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  #17  
Old 11-19-2007, 03:41 PM
MikeBandy MikeBandy is offline
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Default Re: Stars Microrazzament

[ QUOTE ]
Rusty, I posted the hand for entertainment value and played it for that. Sometimes when you are winning so often no one will call your A23, it's nice to let them see you do something outrageous.
[ QUOTE ]
It was entertaining. When I no longer get action, I start bluffing.
[ QUOTE ]
I guess I've never had that happen to me (get hit by the deck so hard that people stop calling)

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

I admit that's what I said, but it's not what I meant.

I don't think I do this in any other poker game; but sometimes when I'm playing razz, I start playing ABC. I like the way SGspecial put it in another thread – playing razz like tic tac toe. It doesn't take people long to realize that when I bet or raise, I have the best hand. Then I have to change gears by bluffing other than where it's perfectly obvious.

You know, maybe one has to play more ABC in razz than in other poker games. Even if that's true, we don't want to become predictable.
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  #18  
Old 11-19-2007, 03:47 PM
RustyBrooks RustyBrooks is offline
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Default Re: Stars Microrazzament

Haha, Prax, yeah it was Fuchs. I didn't know he was always like that. I guess that explains the line. God, I tried so hard to switch seats but it was impossible.

Ah. Well ABC razz to me includes both betting when it appears that I'm behind but I don't believe that I am, and betting when I know I'm behind but it might appear that I'm not. It doesn't include TOO much actual bluffing although I will multi-barrel bluff if my opponents board is all bricks no matter if I have 2 pair.

I think a real problem with razz is that there is generally not a situation where a crap hand can go into being way ahead on 4th. In stud, your little pair can become a monster in one card and you can collect big when you make trips, or you can play some hands that can develop big draws by 5th, etc, etc. In razz a 3 card low on 4th just doesn't develop into a winning hand all that often vs a 4 card low. You don't have the implied odds that you do in other games.

Although then this hand goes ahead and proves that sometimes you do.
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  #19  
Old 11-19-2007, 03:56 PM
RustyBrooks RustyBrooks is offline
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Default Re: Stars Microrazzament

And I just checked, and I'm only up on him like $10. The funny thing is, I won 11 hands against him and lost 39 (I assume the lost hands includes hands I folded). I *might* have had a better record if I called him more. It was about 20 hands into the session before I discovered the depths of his depravity. This was actually only over about 85 hands so I guess $10 (5bb) from one player is not so bad.

It's hard to imagine that he'd be up a lot. It isn't just his hand selection that's a problem, he actually plays quite badly from what I saw. His one saving grace is probably that people play their worst razz against him. I treated him like I would any LAG... call down light, value bet mercilessly, fold if it appears I'm too far behind, DESPITE the fact that he may have crap. His 5th st aggression is through the roof. That's kind of interesting.

I also have trouble figuring out how Farha makes money.
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  #20  
Old 11-19-2007, 04:21 PM
SGspecial SGspecial is offline
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Default Re: Stars Microrazzament

[ QUOTE ]
And I just checked, and I'm only up on him like $10. The funny thing is, I won 11 hands against him and lost 39 (I assume the lost hands includes hands I folded). I *might* have had a better record if I called him more. It was about 20 hands into the session before I discovered the depths of his depravity.

[/ QUOTE ]
Playing by the book won't help you beat guys like this because most books on razz don't or won't address how to play vs. maniacs. Giving them too much credit for having a hand can be just as dangerous as giving "solid" players too little credit.
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