Won $ at Showdown %?

cowboy.up · #1 10-12-2007, 03:21 PM

I've seen some people say that having a W$SD % that's in the upper 50s and 60s is a leak...is this a joke or a legitimate leak in the game in some way shape or form? I couldn't rationalize why it would be bad, I know that a high went to showdown percentage is bad, especially coupled with a low won money at showdown...but any thoughts?

thac · #2 10-12-2007, 03:23 PM

A high Won % at Showdown stat means that you probably don't make enough thin calls, and you give up on pots too easily. Like 52-53% is pretty standard I think.

cowboy.up · #3 10-12-2007, 03:35 PM

thin calls - meaning we should be reraising instead of flat calling?

i still don't see the logic in giving up on pots too easily...if our stats are high, doesn't that mean we are 'giving up' the hand we'd be losing?

thac · #4 10-12-2007, 03:45 PM

Not necessarily the pots we'd be losing.. but by avoiding all marginal spots, you're raising your W$SD percentage, but losing your W$WSF and your total profits. It may not effect your profits much but by not calling a decent-sized bet on the river with TPMK when you're getting odds to call, you're losing a probably 30-40bb pot that you could've won. Sure you may be wrong sometimes and it will drop your W$SD but you should be making more in the end.

cowboy.up · #5 10-12-2007, 03:49 PM

OK while we're talking stats...won money w/o showdown. is it possible to get this number positive over the long run? i'm always negative, -5.7 BB/100 over my last 20k hands. i'm guessing that's my biggest leak in my game. i know this is signaling that i call and fold a lot, but is that a terrible won w/o showdown, or are some people's positive over the long run?

thac · #6 10-12-2007, 04:03 PM

I think it means you're giving up pots too easily.. what's your total AF postflop? It sounds kinda like you're not c-betting enough or double-barreling enough or trying to win enough pots.

How many tables do you play?

cowboy.up · #7 10-12-2007, 04:09 PM

8-10 table. my normal total AF is in the 3.25 neighborhood. i consider myself on the aggressive side. although my c-bets get check raised a high percentage of times i feel, probably because i fold them when i have air...although i thought that was pretty standard to fold to a c/r when you have nothing.

do some better players have a positive won money w/o showdown in the long term?

GSykes · #8 10-12-2007, 04:11 PM

You could always be running hotter than the sun. Just embrace it

thac · #9 10-12-2007, 04:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
8-10 table. my normal total AF is in the 3.25 neighborhood. i consider myself on the aggressive side. although my c-bets get check raised a high percentage of times i feel, probably because i fold them when i have air...although i thought that was pretty standard to fold to a c/r when you have nothing.

do some better players have a positive won money w/o showdown in the long term?

[/ QUOTE ]

Where are you finding this?

thac · #10 10-12-2007, 04:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You could always be running hotter than the sun. Just embrace it

[/ QUOTE ]

Also true.