BURN AND TURN. Dealers Please!

[*TT*]

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I But a dealer knowing that calling the floor may cost them money may be hesitant.

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A dealer who hides his or her mistakes should get fired, and their co-workers should encourage it since they leave behind his or her share of the incentive pool.

[Ramon Scott]

It is common for the room log to list dealer errors where floor is called.

[jh12547]

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I do actually have a life, and manage to work 50 hours per week as well. I would have a hard time believing that anyone working in poker management could do the job well without keeping a journal on dealer issues and floor decisions. For one, how else can the floor rulings be consistent, and also, when working with 20 dealers, (Small Casino) how else do you evaluate them fairly.

Psandman - Once in 90 days in my opinion is not often enough to be an issue. Especially as you describe the situation with the button, or last to act. When I was dealing (and I try to explain this to my dealers) If I announced "Four player's" as I brought the flop, it was automatic for me to not burn and turn until four player's acted. My dealers are constantly missing someone. It never seems to me to be something as simple as the last person to act, which I would consider to be an understandable mistake occasionally.

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I dont understand this journal for floor decisions and dealer issues.
Are you saying is if the same exact mistake happens on 2 different games it could be fixed differently each time? How can floor decisions be inconsistent in such a small room. I would think that you (being in Management) would have set the guidelines on how to fix things and your floors should fix them the same.There should be no discrepancies and no need to keep track in a journal as all problems are fixed the same way each time. Management should know what mistakes could happen and which way to fix them.

Now with dealers if you said 100, 200, or more it would be different but you say there are 20. If I ran a small room like that they wouldnt be making the same mistake. Instead of writing in my journal and keeping track i would be right there helping problem dealer constantly with what to do to improve. If he/she didnt want to improve well he/she would be let go and i would have people that i wanted that didnt make mistakes. I also supervise in gaming but not poker. I have probably worked with 5 - 700 different dealers this year alone and i know as soon as i see them what mistakes they consistently make and how exactly to fix them. When i supervise craps and a dealer makes mistakes i know what to do to help a dealer improve. Its my job to know otherwise i wouldnt be a supervisor.Unfortuantely ifI continue to tell them and it still doesnt help i am in no position for disciplinary action and/or termination.
I know i sound like a jerk and people dont aqree with me but IMO management shouldnt need to come on an internet forum and ask others for advice. Its their job to know what to do. Otherwise they shouldnt be in that position.

Figure this should get the crowd riled up

[QuadsOverQuads]

Personally, I have 2 burn-and-turns in the past six months. I don't believe a competent dealer should be making this error very frequently, and certainly not nightly. If they are, then I suspect it's not so much a speed issue as a focus and game-control issue.

q/q

[*TT*]

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IMO management shouldnt need to come on an internet forum and ask others for advice.

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which perfect world do you in? I want to move to the land of make believe. Say hello to Mr Rodgers for me!

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Its their job to know what to do. Otherwise they shouldnt be in that position.

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The vast majority of people in poker room management have no management background, they are former dealers.

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Figure this should get the crowd riled up

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Photoc is always riled up, give that man his lithium.

[Photoc]

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Figure this should get the crowd riled up

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Photoc is always riled up, give that man his lithium.

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Haha TT. Actually, I haven't got much to say in this thread. I can see both sides of the argument, the good and the bad too. I've got management background between running my own business with 5 employees to being in a table games management position and now I just prefer to deal. It's so much nicer for about the same amount of money (not including running a business working those 100 hour weeks and it sucked!) There just isn't anything I can say that hasn't been said already in here.

I don't get riled up at threads like this honestly. It's just the stupid and redundant threads/people that drive me nuts.

[jh12547]

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IMO management shouldnt need to come on an internet forum and ask others for advice.

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which perfect world do you in? I want to move to the land of make believe. Say hello to Mr Rodgers for me!

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Its their job to know what to do. Otherwise they shouldnt be in that position.

[/ QUOTE ]

The vast majority of people in poker room management have no management background, they are former dealers.

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Figure this should get the crowd riled up

[/ QUOTE ]

Photoc is always riled up, give that man his lithium.

[/ QUOTE ]


TT...What is the point of the statement that the vast majority of poker room management started as dealers. I would think that 90% of managers out there started at the bottom no matter what they did. Whether its Mcdonalds managers, managers at walmart or managers of a poker room. I suspect every manager started at the bottom at sometime. Its not like they just walked into the job as managers.

Not fantasy land just the facts i would think. In this situation OP said he was a dealer 10 yrs ago. Now what has he been doing since. If its managing and he is coming on here asking what to do well then i dont think he is the right manager for that position. Again I am a supervisor in my position as well.IMO if i came in here and asked how to do my job or what to do if mistakes happened well then i dont think i should be doing that job then. Managers are suppose to know what to do. Right or wrong?

[hardazz]

Have dealers announce number of players/ and pull bets in before burning. This will eliminate a majority of your B&T errors

[*TT*]

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Its not like they just walked into the job as managers.

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lower level managers, yes. Corporate management, generally no.

[youtalkfunny]

Hey, Joe, come on in. Close the door. Have a seat.

What? No, you're not in any trouble. Not at all. In fact, I was just going over your latest evaluation, and it's fantastic. You show up every day, on time, neatly dressed and shaved...the players like you, you get along well with everybody...you do a great job at the table running the game...BUT...the one problem you seem to be having is with all the Burn and Turns.

It happens, I know. Believe me, I know, I've done it myself. It happens to all of us. But it happens to you a LOT. A little too much.

Again, you're not in trouble. I was just hoping that we could address this, and see what we can do to prevent it from becoming a problem.

So let me start by asking you: Why do YOU think you have so many Burn and Turns?

***

At this point, Joe is likely to blame the players. Don't let him get by with that. Point out to him that he's dealing to the same players that all the other dealers are, and they're not ringing up B&T's left and right.

Before you ask Joe why he's B&T-ing so much, you should already know the answer. It's probably one of the following common reasons:

--He's trying to talk and deal at the same time;
--He's rushing, trying to get out more hands (to make more $$);
--He's one of those brain-dead people that make you wonder how they find their way home from work every night.

If it's Reason #3, you're screwed. There's no fixing stupid.

#1 and #2 are easily fixable, if the dealer WANTS to fix the problem. Some dealers just like talking more than they like taking pride in a job well done. As the manager, it's on you to motivate your dealer to WANT to do a good job.

The obvious motivational tool is M-O-N-E-Y. Tell Joe that time is money, and stopping the game to get the floorman costs Joe money. Re-shuffling in the middle of a hand costs Joe money. Pissing off the players costs Joe A LOT of money.

Once properly motivated, figure out what Joe is doing wrong; bring it to his attention; urge him to work on it; and this is very important, FOLLOW UP. Call him back into the office in couple of months, and discuss his progress.

One last thing: when offering criticism to a subordinate, I've found that it's best to serve criticism as a sandwich: start by giving him a compliment; get to the criticism; and finish with more compliments.

The sandwich looks like this:

Compliment
Criticism
Compliment

Example:

"Hey, Joe, let's talk. First, you're doing A, B, C, and D right! Great Job! But E and F are a problem, you need to work on E and F. But overall, I'm very pleased, you're a great guy, we're lucky to have you!"

Hope this helps.