Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown

[bwiii]

As a dealer this is a tough position. When I know I have an "angle shooter" at the table I do my best to adjust. If they miscall a hand on the river, I ask to see it before other players muck their hands. If they don't want to show, I'll hold up the action until they do. The "shooter" gets the point and I protect the intergrity of the game. I'm a local's dealer and this does happen. They pick on the weak dealers and players. But, it's not difficult for one player to make a comment about a "shooter" and it generally stops. "Shooters" get away with it because they can. If there is "competent" floor around, they will do their job as well.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

You should quietly point this out to the floor, more than one if necessary. Also if you're in a hand and she does this hang on to your cards and embarrass the hell out of her. Advise opponents of her angles and if she gets beat to death she gets what she deserves.

Al

[youtalkfunny]

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what if there were two players who mucked there cards. who would you reward the pot?

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"15. ...If you miscall your hand and cause another player to foul his or her hand, your hand is dead. If both hands remain intact, the best hand wins. If a miscalled hand occurs in a multihanded pot, the miscalled hand is dead, and the best remaining hand wins the pot. For your own protection, always hold your hand until you see your opponent’s cards.

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i asked: what if there were three players in the pot, player A misscall his hand, and player B and C fold. who gets the pot?/?

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Gee, I don't know. I guess the dealer would get to keep the money.

[dark-o]

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what if there were two players who mucked there cards. who would you reward the pot?

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"15. ...If you miscall your hand and cause another player to foul his or her hand, your hand is dead. If both hands remain intact, the best hand wins. If a miscalled hand occurs in a multihanded pot, the miscalled hand is dead, and the best remaining hand wins the pot. For your own protection, always hold your hand until you see your opponent’s cards.

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i asked: what if there were three players in the pot, player A misscall his hand, and player B and C fold. who gets the pot?/?

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Gee, I don't know. I guess the dealer would get to keep the money.

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[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] nice one, no seriusly, what then? does anyone know rule?

[youtalkfunny]

(I've started to post this one nine times, and was able to restrain myself each time. Sorry, I can't hold it back any longer.)

Gee whiz, Darko. Who do you THINK gets the pot???

(EDIT: Yeah, I got issues. I know. I'm working on 'em.)

[JeffBship]

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...now before the showdown I mentally decide what two cards would beat me.

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Ummm. Not sure how to respond to that statement. Were you not doing this before?

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Oh sure, I just mean early in the hand you might estimate a players cards and come up with a range of what he might have. i.e...he's fairly loose/passive and he limped in late position there are tons of things he could have. By the river, you narrow it down to only a couple of exact things, mentally review the action, and make a decision.

Did I do this before? Not always, everyone was a newbie at some point [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[goofyballer]

Once while playing a 1/2nl drunkfest at O'Shea's in Vegas (tiny room, like 2 cash game tables right next to the entrance on the Strip) I played a hand against some douchebag who later threw a glass of water on Big_Jim. In this hand (quoted from that thread):

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Like his 3rd hand at the table, I had 64o in the blinds and he limped. Flop 632r, I lead for $10, he calls, saying something like he has aces, I can't really understand because I'm drunk. Turn K, check check, river J, I check, he bets $25, I snapcall because his line is trash and he says "two pair." I say "ok, let's see it," and he flips 73o. I flip 64o which is good, and he seriously says "Six is good! I said two pair because I was hoping you would throw your cards away."

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Should the dealer/floor do something? The dealer at the table had no reaction to that guy's comment. I guess if I had thrown my hand away (thank god I didn't, even despite being drunk when he said two pair I was like "lol, no you don't") he would have gotten the pot?

Also, another interesting floor decision from that night:

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Jim straddles UTG; I call blind in BB, Jim raises to $14 after looking at his cards because he's a stupid nit, I call blind. Flop 6 6 2. I check, Jim bets $20, I look down at Q 7 and call with the intention of checkraising the turn. Turn blank, check check; river is some [censored] brick, I check, Jim bets $35, I obv snapcall and Jim throws his cards face down in front of him. I'm not really sure if I had to table my hand to take down the pot, but I did anyway because I felt like I made a baller calldown and wanted the table to think I'm a retarded psycho, and Jim looks at my hand and is like "wtf" and grabs his cards (which he threw in front of him but had not yet been officially mucked by the dealer) and turns up KTo. I'm like "WTF U MUCKED UR CARDS" and Jim's like "LOL MY CARDS BEAT URS" and we agree to chop the pot without the dealer or anyone else getting involved (Serious question: who should have won the pot? Is that affected by whether or not I turn my hand over, since if I didn't Jim's cards would have just been mucked?). Apparently this caught the floor's eye, however, because she came over and said "wtf are you guys doing" even though it was a heads-up pot and we actually lost money considering that the rake wasn't covered by the small blind's $1 that we chopped. The floor lady told us that we weren't allowed to talk to each other during hands anymore and she seriously stood behind us, watching and listening like a hawk for the next 30 minutes. She repeated about 5 times that she had to protect the integrity of the game.

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Given that it was a HU pot, we did nothing wrong here, right? Sorry for the slight hijack but I'm already writing this post and I don't think it needs a new thread.

[youtalkfunny]

It's O'Shea's. Don't expect them to know how to run a poker room.

In Story #1, AngleShooter miscalled his hand in an effort to get you to muck. Had you mucked, and AngleShooter got caught deliberately miscalling his hand, the rules say you should get the pot.

There's a 0.00006% chance that somebody working at O'Shea's knows about the existence of this rule.

In Story #2, if the only conversation between you and Jim came post-showdown, then FloorLady is being way too nitty. Yes, technically, you guys aren't allowed to chop a pot. But a good FloorLady would ask what's going on before admonishing the players; and if nobody had a problem with the way you guys settled your dispute, then she shouldn't have a problem with it, either.

But again, it's O'Shea's, so what do you expect?

[goofyballer]

Say we didn't agree to chop the pot - Jim threw his cards towards the dealer, but it wasn't killed/mucked, then turned them up when he realized it was good - is it his pot at that point?