ATo - dealing with the donker

[sethypooh21]

Villain is Tango7, TAG who loves to donk into pfrs. Usually means < tp if he does. I feel lost on every street in this kind of spot.

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO folds, BB calls.

Turn: (5.20 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

River: (7.20 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 7.20 BB

[aargh57]

I play it the same. To me, this villain has got a 4, pp, or an ace and hardly ever a King. To me the question is on the turn. I like a bet as we're getting a FSD a lot. However, do we fold to a c/r now? There's now a FD out there but we have the A of spades so what 2 spades would he donk the flop with and c/r the turn? So I'm thinking that we can pretty safely fold to a turn c/r as we have to give him credit for a K now.

[milesdyson]

worst thing to do in these hands is check turn and call river. your hand looks exactly like AQ/AJ trying to showdown cheap and he'll anally valurape you.

the other thing is that some people will fold a 4/ace to your turn bet. maybe he doesn't but some people will.

[MacGuyV]

[ QUOTE ]
worst thing to do in these hands is check turn and call river. your hand looks exactly like AQ/AJ trying to showdown cheap and he'll anally valurape you.

the other thing is that some people will fold a 4/ace to your turn bet. maybe he doesn't but some people will.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree on the 1st point, not on the 2nd.
Flop call + turn fold or flop raise + turn check + river fold are the best options imo.

[GoodOL]

I like just calling the flop donk bet in this spot. Since I sometimes just call the flop with a monster...my call could mean AK. If he bets the turn...I call again. If he fires another barrel, then I fold (I don't think many TAGs would bet into another TAG three times with air...I sometimes play hands this way...call call call/raise).

The flop raise, turn bet sets up the turn CR bluff/semibluff play...and calling down from there is not a nice spot.

[Guruman]

sethy,

I think you've got a strong enough kicker there that you don't want to slow him up when he's bluffing by raising the flop. donking into the pfr on a tall paird board is a bluffy kind of line, and if's he's on total air there he'll release when you push back.

If you had a weaker hand like QT I'd like the raise better.

macguyv,

...flop raise + turn check + river fold are the best options imo
i've attempted freeze plays like this before, but i think the value we gain from suckouts+missed villain vb's is neutralized by the fact that we're stopping his bluffs when he's on air. guys that donk paired boards don't do it with made hands a whole lot because everyone knows that those boards are hard to hit. If we just call and allow him to barrell off we still reserve the right to raise when we catch, allowing the best of both worlds.

[MacGuyV]

"guys that donk paired boards don't do it with made hands a whole lot because everyone knows that those boards are hard to hit."

Disagree a lot - shouldn't they also know that nobody folds Ace high on those boards? I realize some people will play ~J7 like that, but from a medicore Tag it's usually exactly what it looks like - 4x or a PP (especially in a 3way pot). Not saying it's not dumb, but that's why they're called donks. This is all why I'd typically just peel &amp; fold ui.

[mcphee42]

I like the flop raise. If he's bluffing he'll probably fold right away, and that's actually a mistake given the size of the pot. If he calls I think I check the turn and give up the river unimproved for reasons given above.

What if we had called the flop, we do improve and he still donks? I think I prefer to raise a ten and call an ace. If he has a pocket pair or 4x and a T turns up, he'll probably still bet out. Not so much an A unless he was betting Ax. Otherwise he's either bluffing or trying to 3-bet trip kings.

[sethypooh21]

Given that CO is in the hand, flop raise &gt; calling, though it's easier for me to rep a big hand if the board is even slightly coordinated. Actually, 3-handed, I think folding might be about my best option, but metagame considerations really make me not want to take that line.

[sharpie]

[ QUOTE ]
Given that CO is in the hand, flop raise &gt; calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

I prefer calling the flop, if the other guy calls you can be sure that the BB has a hand if he bets the turn again.