Any point 4-betting here?

[hogger]

I don't understand why most are saying push! The hand screams full house! Has to be TT more often then AQ. Unless of coarse villian is a complete tool?

[aplunk]

This isn't my hand it was a friend who asked my advice, i wasn't sure so i thought i'd post it.

I play a lot of tournaments where his 3rd bet is sometimes a complete bluff, attempting to take advantage of hero's fear for his 'tournament life', so i'm never folding this. Cash games are different, so i think a bluff is very unlikely here.

If i'd have been playing this, i'd have pushed cause i'm an action junkie. My initial advice was to call, but the more i think about it - the more i'm starting to agree with aj that we might fold.

so - villain could have

AQ/KQ/QJ (unlikely to slow play this though, unless they're diamonds, and even then it's gotta be better (thoughts??) to build the pot before another diamond falls, potentially kiling off any action)
22/QQ/1010 (22 being the least likely for an utg raise, and the only one we're ahead of, 1010 is the most likely since 2 of the queens are out)
Q10 (would need evidence of villain being laggy to include this in his range, but it's possible)
AA/KK/JJ (would need evidence of villain being an idiot to include these)

so - if we know that villain is a straightforward reasonable player the only hands that fit are AQd,KQd,QJd,QdQs,1010(x3) - 3 that we beat and 4 that we don't. If they're all equally likely then i guess that makes it a call and not a push. If we think he's not slowplaying AQ/KQ/QJ it's a really tough fold.

any other thoughts on villain's range?

[registrar]

I suck at cash games too. However, need some reads here. UTG min-raise full ring is pretty bad, IMO, with QQ or TT so I think we're possibly in idiot land anyway. If the guy generally limps then I might, maybe, not push. I think it's plausible to think that a standard idiot could have a Q and have failed with two check-raises. I also think that min-raising 22 or QTs UTG is a lot more plausible that min-raising TT or QQ.

At 100NL on Crypto, pushing is unquestionably +EV here, readless. I imagine that FTP is tougher.

[J. Stew]

im just calling here.

no hands make sense for him so I think he's bluffing and won't call a raise or checked a monster through. QQ, TT, QT maybe, either way he plays like a retard.

why on god's green earth would he check 222 twice, or AQ?? the only thing i can think is he flopped top set and missed two check raises. yeah if he's doing that with qqq he could do it with 222 but asdlkfj;asas;ldfkreeetttaarrdddd

[Fedfan691]

lol@ anything but push here.

[The Velour Fog]

lolol at folding and calling.. is everybody running bad or what is it with these overanalytical "just call" responses. sure, we might be beat, but likely we are not. im never doing anything else than pushing in this spot, unless we are ridicoulously deep

[loosbastard]

Folding is awful...

I can see arguments for both calling and shoving...but I would never EVER consider folding this unless this guy is an absolute nit.

[J. Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
lolol at folding and calling.. is everybody running bad or what is it with these overanalytical "just call" responses. sure, we might be beat, but likely we are not. im never doing anything else than pushing in this spot, unless we are ridicoulously deep

[/ QUOTE ]

what hands do we beat here that are calling?

[ikestoys]

straight, a Q, a lower set... such an easy push

[J. Stew]

there is no straight on the board and why isn't he betting a queen or 222 anywhere?