How did you do it? Financial Success Thread

[Duerig]

Bump. I'd especially be interested in hearing experiences from anyone that has worked in tech startups.

[James282]

i have had financial success, but am now working on creating a story.

James

[beeyjay]

[ QUOTE ]

But often, the buyer's and seller's interests are aligned more closely to each other than either of them are to the guy on commission. So if they can figure out a way to transact without that guy, they both win.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have agreed with you before I saw what a really good salesperson could do. A great salesman finds ways to make transactions take place that wouldn't have happened without him. Often these transactions can yield positive outcomes for both parties.

[DMoogle]

I posted my story so far in BBV two weeks ago here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=0#Post10038653
It's all about my poker career, as I'm 18 and have just started college part time (I'm going to go full time next year). However, I did start up a school snack store in high school (I went to a really small private Quaker school with only ~40 students) that was successful, but didn't net me nearly as much money as poker has. Since I wrote this, I'm consistently playing 2/4 NLHE and had my best day ever three days ago (~$4300!). CardRunners helped me improve and re-evaluate my game IMMENSELY. Thank you!

BBV Cliffnotes:
Brag: Finally reached $10K from poker
Beat: Took me about 180K hands
Variance: Started with 90 cents. Fun graphs below.


Even when I was a kid, as young as 8, I had been totally fascinated by gambling. I really liked video games (still do), and I got a gambling game called Vegas Stakes for my Super Nintendo. I thought it was awesome, and I thought being a professional gambler would've been the coolest thing in the world. I never really played poker until I was 13 or so with my friends for $5 or less at a time.

A year and twelve days ago, I got $.90 for free on a small site call All In Poker for some really crappy promotion they had. I was seventeen years old and still in high school (I graduated a year early because that's how I roll). The lowest limits on that site were $.05/$.10 Limit, so I only had a 9BB bankroll, but that was enough for me to gogogogogogogogo.

Well, I obviously didn't go broke. I was already a 2+2 member, and was soaking up all the information I could about this game. I read a guide on how to build a bankroll, and that 300BBs is a solid start. So I decided that I was going to build up to $30 then move onto PokerStars, which I heard was rake-free in the lowest limits (I believe they originally only raked the limits of Limit $.50/$1 and above, but when I joined, the highest limit that was rake-free was $.05/$.10). The reason I waited until I reached $30, a 300BB bankroll, was because that was the minimum amount required to cashout from the small site I was playing at, which I believe was a part of the Prima network. I remember when I reached $5, a person joined my table and bought in for $700. He claimed that poker had no skill, and to prove his point he didn't do anything but raise the entire time he played. I tripled my bankroll through him for a cool $15.

So I eventually I built up to $30, moved to PokerStars, and just grinded all the way up to $100. I think I only played one table at that time, so progress was a bit slow. I moved to $.10/$.20 when my bankroll reached $80 because I didn't think the rake made it worth it. After that, I moved around a lot of sites just looking for free bonuses that were easy to clear. A site called empirebacker.com gave me $50 on some Prima site for signing up, and that was a very easy bonus to clear. Then the owner of that site came up with another site, freepokerquiz.com, that gave other bonuses for taking poker quizzes every day and getting $10 here and there. I won one of their special monthly quizzes for a free iPod when my bankroll had reached $300 (playing $.25/$.50 and $.50/$1 on Titan Poker at the time). That was a nice gift.

In addition to low stakes Limit, I'd occasionally dabble in Sit-N-Gos, and I still do play them, but they're not really my thing. I usually play them as a way to relieve tilt. The freepokerquiz.com bonuses on Titan Poker were really nice for my bankroll, so I stayed there for a while. Unfortunately, Titan Poker didn't save hand histories to the hard drive at the time, so that part of my poker career is missing in my Poker Tracker database.

I've always been a very frugal money spender, and that shows in my bankroll management skills. I'm a total nit with my bankroll. I eventually moved to the Cryptologic network when my bankroll reached $450 or so, because of bonuses+rakeback, which I heard was excellent for bankroll building. I believe I was playing $.35/$.70 at the time, and started to experience some variance that was practically non-existent at the levels below that. Up to this point, I was kind of afraid of NL (which, ironically, was the only game I had ever played live with my friends), but I started to dabble in the $.10/$.25 games. It was at this time I played three donkaments and cashed in all three. The first two were about 50 people, and I think I came in 3rd and 5th. The buy-ins were really low, so it wasn't too much money, but the third one was about a $25 buy-in with nearly 200 people, and I came in second for a $1000 prize. I remember at the time I only played donkaments that had enough overlay to completely make up for juice. Boy am I a nit.

After the $1000 boost, I decided to actually spend some of my hard-earned money on one of the 1600x1200 monitors I had heard about that were oh-so-perfect for playing poker with. I'm a computer guy, so I did a lot of research on which was the best one, and finally decided on the Dell 2007FP (there was originally some kind of color banding problem with 2007FPs, but by the time I was looking for a monitor, this had been fixed). I waited for it to go on sale and I spent $425 on it. It was quite a nice upgrade from the 1024x768 CRT that was 5+ years old that I had been using. I still consider it one of the best investments I've ever made.

So after the monitor, my bankroll was about $1100. I suddenly had the urge to play heads-up NL. It's what I usually played with my friends, and I thought I was pretty good. I crushed the heads-up $.25/$.50 NL games on the Cryptologic network for about 15PTBB/100. While doing that, I decided I wanted to really learn NLHE, since I had heard that it was much more profitable than LHE (did I mention that the entire time I had played 6-max games, because FR sucks?). I did beat the $.25/$.50 and $.5/$1 NL, but it was very swingy. I was committed to playing a thousand hands a day, almost everyday, four-tabling. Overall I think my winrate was about 4PTBB/100. I built up my bankroll up to $2500, but had a $1000 downswing at one point when I tried moving back to $3/$6 and $5/$10 Limit which totally destroyed my confidence. I did pull out of it though.

I had heard of Party Poker having the softest games, but I had stayed away from it because I didn't think it was worth giving up rakeback for softer games. Someone posted that Party rakeback was actually possible, but it was that very week that I had planned to switch over when a certain bastard named Bill Frist helped get the UIGEA passed. Interpoker (the Crypto site I played on) took about two months to send me my check, but fortunately I had kept half my bankroll, which was about $5500 total in Neteller just in case.

I had already set up rakeback accounts at Ultimate Bet and Full Tilt Poker. I tried UB first because the rakeback was higher and the bonus was about the same. I didn't like the interface at all, so I quickly withdrew my money and moved (along with nearly every other 2+2er) to FTP. Between October and December I really had trouble beating the games (I was regularly playing $.50/$1 NL). During that period, I pretty much broke even even AFTER bonuses and rakeback. I had (have) a weakness for donkaments, and am probably $2K in the hole lifetime from those damn $150+$13 and $69+$6 Guaranteed donkaments. Fortunately I've learned proper donkament bankroll management (I thought 30 buy-ins was overrolled [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]), and now I don't play any higher than $24+$2, even though I'm way overrolled for that.

Around the middle of December, I really didn't feel like I was beating the games, and the $1000 I had initially deposited into FTP had winded down to about $400 when it had been up as high as $2400. I didn't totally quit, but I barely played at all in the second half of December, January and the first half of February. Also, my PT database had kind of gone wacko, and I had to start a new one. You can see in the new one's graph that in the beginning, I didn't make any money. In fact, I was about $2500 in the hole lifetime at $1/$2 NL. I think that game is where the money starts messing with my head. Most people say they become somewhat weak-tight when they move up. I became the opposite; a reckless loose-aggressive style that resulted in me making bad bluffs in pot after pot.

After my hiatus, I thought that if I was to one day become a real professional player like aba20/sbrugby/Brian Townsend (one of my idols), then I had to get off my ass and start working on my game. Unfortunately, I had (and still have) $3800 stuck in Neteller, so the only money I had to work with is the $400 or so I still had on FTP. I decided to start from the basics at $.05/$.10 NL and work my way up when I felt ready. This was in the middle of February, and I moved up pretty quickly from $.05/$.10 to $.10/$.25 to $.15/$.30 (I think I play well deepstacked, or at least I run hot [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]) to $.25/$.50 (not too much), to $.50/$1 with $.40/$.80, and, as of today, $1/$2. I bought a CardRunners subscription at the end of March, as I've heard that they've vastly helped many players' games. Since then, I've been playing, I think, extremely well, and running super hot. I'm up about $1350 (plus $250 for last month's rakeback [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]) in the past three days alone, playing $.40/$.80, $.50/$1, and $1/$2. I still stick to my 1000 hands a day schedule, and I hope to be disciplined enough to continue to do so. I also usually play between four and six tables. Anymore than that and my concentration and game just go way down.

As promised, here are my graphs. Database #2 follow directly after database #1.
Database #1, dollars:


Database #1, nicer graph in BBs


Database #2, dollars (sexy upswing, isn't it?)


Database #2, BBs

[rock1]

there have been some great stories in this thread...i really admire those that have had to take big risks to get to where they are...i feel like my career progression and financial success have been more "safe"...

Electrical Engineering and Finance majors from Ivy League School-> trading derivatives on sell-side->running a desk at a big hedge fund start up...

My path is not worthy of a long email, but some of the takeaways seem to be...

1. Hard work is imperative in success, but I really believe luck plays a big role...i ended up with a trading internship my junior year in college...i heard one of the guys at tennis practice say that Salomon Brothers Sales + Trading was on campus interviewing today...ran over after practice sweaty/unshaven/in practice garb and caught the interviewer as she was walking out the door...quickly told her about my background and asked if she would interview me...she said she would give me 15 min and take the next train...we talked about college basketball for 15 min, and she gave me the callback which lead to my internship...lots of blind luck here that led me to a career path that probably would not have taken place otherwise...

2. Happiness in personal life always makes it easier to be successful in career...i've felt very good about friendships/relationships/wife/kids during my working career and really feel like it greatly increased my opportunity set of success at work...

3. If you do things just for the money, you aren't going to last...you always hear people say that they would put up with XXX if that meant they could make YYY a year...that sentiment rarely lasts, and it becomes very difficult to "grind out" that paycheck...i understand that many americans feel like they are grinding out their careers...but i am talking about people that have had some financial success...if they have some financial freedom, they are probably not going to last grinding it out...find a career that really does interest you as that will eventually be what drives your success

4.Don't burn bridges because you never know when those people will come back to affect you...i'll be the first to say that it feels good to give someone an F U after they have treated you poorly...but in a lot of lines of work, the upper echelon is a tight-nit group and someone always knows someone else...bite your tongue and leave bridges in tact as they will help you down the road...

5. Make sure morals/ethics are high on your priority list...there are plenty of people who are talented enough to make a good living and retire early if they just keep their head down...but one little mistake blows them up...i am not talking about major ethical breaches, but more those things that everyone recognizes as gray, and justifies with "everyone else is doing it so it must be ok"...those gray lines can be career busters, and even if they arent, they still give a glimpse of character...

6. While it may play a big role, don't let your financial success be your defining personality characteristic...those that let their financial success define them never seem truly happy...

Keep the stories coming.

[renodoc]

[ QUOTE ]


Shortly after that, I gambled and argued to the firm that we should take a case on contingency for a small client who had gotten screwed by Lockheed. The firm agreed. Two years later, a federal district judge granted summary judgment against us on all counts. Two years after that, largely based on my brief and my depositions, the 9th Circuit reversed and remanded for trial. Two of my partners and I tried the case; we won $64.5 million. Largely on the strength of that case, I made the second partnership cut, which was huge -- from $350K up to about $1MM/year.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had to read this three times, because I thought i was going to call you out on it. Since you are a respected poster (myself included in that respect) I'd like to hear just a little more detail about the small client that got screwed and the lawfirm that made >$20MM on it. In general I side with Shakespeare, but perhaps more facts can persuade me otherwise.

[burningyen]

[ QUOTE ]
In general I side with Shakespeare...

[/ QUOTE ]
This old chestnut again. You side with Dick in Henry VI. Google it.

[Howard Treesong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Shortly after that, I gambled and argued to the firm that we should take a case on contingency for a small client who had gotten screwed by Lockheed. The firm agreed. Two years later, a federal district judge granted summary judgment against us on all counts. Two years after that, largely based on my brief and my depositions, the 9th Circuit reversed and remanded for trial. Two of my partners and I tried the case; we won $64.5 million. Largely on the strength of that case, I made the second partnership cut, which was huge -- from $350K up to about $1MM/year.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had to read this three times, because I thought i was going to call you out on it. Since you are a respected poster (myself included in that respect) I'd like to hear just a little more detail about the small client that got screwed and the lawfirm that made >$20MM on it. In general I side with Shakespeare, but perhaps more facts can persuade me otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure. A couple of points right off the bat: the law firm didn't make anywhere close to $20MM on it; we were on a variable contingency, and I think the final number was a bit over $7MM. The case is Cable & Computer Technology v. Lockheed; here's a link to one of the Ninth Circuit opinions that does a passable job of describing the factual setting: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bi...mp;no=9955004.

Basically, one Lockheed division (Sanders) agreed to team with CCT to submit a bid to Boeing to upgrade mission control computers on the B1-B with CCT as prime contractor. Although no written contract was signed, that division of Lockheed sent four guys out to CCT to work up the bid package. Unbeknownst to CCT, Lockheed met internally with another division (Owego) and disclosed CCT's bidding prices to Owego. Two days before the bid was due, Sanders called CCT and backed out of the agreement to submit a bid, giving no explanation. Owego won it. In discovery, we found an email from the meeting saying something semantically similar to this: "CCT's bid prices were disclosed. They are so confidential that I am not writing them down."

When we filed the case, CCT would have taken a much much lower number. Lockheed played hardball the entire way, deposing each of CCT's four principals for a total of 25 days and leaning hard on their own employees to buy off on their outside counsel's arguments. One of Lockheed's employees, as the opinion notes, sent in an affidavit that the court discusses. He was indeed let go.

I've spent about 90% of my career as a defense lawyer and so appreciate your sentiments. There's a good bit of stupidity in that particular business; I've been considering firing up an EDF post on the asbestosis/silicosis class action rackets that have been going on for years.

[Vang]

[ QUOTE ]
In general I side with Shakespeare, but perhaps more facts can persuade me otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]He was saying the exact opposite of what you think he was saying.

[renodoc]

Thanks Howard.

Everytime I have an interaction with my fine lawyer friends I usually vomit in my mouth a little. The utterly absurd "lottery mentality" that most Americans have these days with regard to any type of liability is sickening-- some times sh*t just happens and that's life.