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  #11  
Old 11-14-2007, 09:33 PM
Unknown Soldier Unknown Soldier is offline
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Default Re: 5NL HUSNG paired board

nah ongame, im not really a sng player, just messing around with them for a while. i play cash games mostly.


if you get called with a wide range on this board then betting is fine


although something like 22 on a 7c5c4h is a definite check
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  #12  
Old 11-14-2007, 09:34 PM
Unknown Soldier Unknown Soldier is offline
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Default Re: 5NL HUSNG paired board

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tnixon, interesting you mentioned position because we should be more inclined to bet oop then ip

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Not sure I understand that, either, since pretty much everything I've seen here would indicate that being oop is where you really don't want to be building a pot.

In position, I'm pretty sure I have the best hand, and I don't want overcards or better draws to get a free card.

[/ QUOTE ]


all about protecting your equity, you have alot less control over the pot when you are oop, so it's usually best just to be the aggressor and bet. If they fold 2 overcards that's not a bad result either (they have like 27% equity vs you), however ip you can control the pot alot easier.
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  #13  
Old 11-14-2007, 10:48 PM
rja87 rja87 is offline
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Default Re: 5NL HUSNG paired board

[ QUOTE ]



all about protecting your equity, you have alot less control over the pot when you are oop, so it's usually best just to be the aggressor and bet. If they fold 2 overcards that's not a bad result either (they have like 27% equity vs you), however ip you can control the pot alot easier.

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I agree, when oop on a hand like this it's hard to have much of an idea where you're at if you check the flop, if they call a cbet you can at least assign them a range, if you check and they bet you really have no idea.
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  #14  
Old 11-14-2007, 10:50 PM
tmcdmck tmcdmck is offline
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Default Re: 5NL HUSNG paired board

yeah def raise preflop, but if you are going to limp, overbetting the pot on the flop seems damned counterproductive; every hand you want to protect against folds to a bet of 60, and betting 80 gets value from roughly no worse hands.
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  #15  
Old 11-15-2007, 01:20 AM
TNixon TNixon is offline
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Default Re: 5NL HUSNG paired board

[ QUOTE ]
i play cash games mostly.

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I think this is where our big difference is then, but please feel free to point out any flaws in my logic:

I know that *in theory*, HUSNG play is supposed to be the same as cash play at similar blinds, but nobody plays them that way.

Especially not at full tilt, and most especially not for $5.

It's *soo* easy to get called on a paired board by hands that are drawing to 3 outs, that I bet it every time I hit, and usually put 2 barrels here if I miss.

I also don't think the bet on the turn is nearly as thin as you do, although pot is definitely overkill. 1/2 pot gets the same job done.

If you bet the flop and check the turn, you're almost guaranteed to have to make a very tough decision on the river, because there are three types of boards that every blufftard just *loves* to throw chips at: 4-straight boards, 4-flush boards, and paired flops.

If you check the flop, I think you lose way too much value from people who will call up to pot with 5 or fewer outs, and might even call a second barrel with ace high (kings and queens will usually fold to the second barrel). If you wait til the turn, you get extra bluffy action (which is really hard to take with this hand), and you also lose a lot of the nothing hands that might peel one off on the flop just for the hell of it.

So, I almost always bet both flop and turn here. Smaller than what the OP does (2/3 flop and 1/2 turn), and folding to the checkraise is obvious, of course, but if villain just calls the turn, I'm almost always going to throw a bet on the river, too.

You're behind a fair number of hands, but there are so many more that you're ahead of that will call all three streets (yes, I routinely get called down by pocket 2s in this situation), that I personally think checking the flop is really bad.

In trying to extract max value out of the typical "any pair is good to take to showdown, and ace high is usually good too" villain, though, I'm *really* bad at exercising pot control, which is probably why I get omgwtfpwned every time I try cash.

Oh yeah, and *DEFINITELY* raise preflop. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #16  
Old 11-15-2007, 01:34 AM
TNixon TNixon is offline
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Default Re: 5NL HUSNG paired board

You know what, though...

I also bet a ten here (and yes, I realize that if you combine it all, that means I almost always bet a paired flop, which is actually pretty close to the truth), for all the same reasons that I bet a 9. So depending on the type of opponent I'm playing, I'm either getting plenty of value when I flop trips, or I'm getting away with a lot of buys when the flop pairs.

I dunno. Most days I'm pretty sure that pot control is one of the major reasons that my winrate hangs around 56-57 instead of going higher, but every time I flop top pair, and get 2/3 pot calls on all three streets from bottom pair, an underpair, or ace high no draw, it seems practically impossible to not bet.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #17  
Old 11-15-2007, 02:30 AM
waxhax0rs waxhax0rs is offline
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Default Re: 5NL HUSNG paired board

lol our hand is way ahead of a random hand. Bet. I prefer to bet more like 2/3 but if you like to pot it that's your choice. I also like to bet ~2/3 on the turn if I get called. I would probably check/fold river to a reasonable bet but I'm not sure. Not sure my turn and river play are the best but leading the flop is almost certainly correct without some kind of strong read (your opponent is a maniac that bets 100% of flops except when he flops huge).
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  #18  
Old 11-15-2007, 11:19 AM
Unknown Soldier Unknown Soldier is offline
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Default Re: 5NL HUSNG paired board

fair points tnixon. if they call with a really wide range then betting the flop is good (i did say that i think). It does make a difference that we limped pf of course, which should make us more inclined to bet (opponent has a wider range)

a river bet is definitely too thin though



il add a disclaimer though - i never said betting was bad, but that checking might be better.
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