First Hand of the Million

[LuckyLloyd]

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can we plz not talk about preflop... just let it be, i'm better then them postflop, and am easily easily easily winning chips with this hand after completing here against unknown and prefer to play it this way over raising. There are many things in the arsenal and I am not planning to limp-call pre, ok? does everyone really want to stack off 200 bb's on this flop?

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I disagree on this. I think it is perfectly valid to talk about preflop in every single tournament hand you ever play. And you can talk about how much better than everyone else you are postflop; and it is obviously true; but part of that edge is always going to be the basics of applying fundamentals like hand selection and position better.

[Rock3656]

lucky he asked how he would proceed on the flop lol.

[burningyen]

My goal would be to extract from 1-pair and semibluff hands rather than trying to stack 2-pair hands. If we 3bet and get 4bet I think we’re facing a pretty ugly range, although I don’t have my poker tools with me right now to see just how bad it is for us. I’d prefer to call the R, CC the turn and lead the river, assuming no more spades.

And I fold preflop.

[Pudge714]

BTW I think preflop is a pretty clearly raise since when limping and flopping more or less the nuts we have no idea WTF to do. I think as played c/ring the flop is better.
If you b/3b you are lost to a 4bet, if you c/r you can call a three bet and reevaluate.

[curtains]

I would fold preflop. One of the main reasons that bad players are bad because they play hands like 42s. Also we are out of position.

[curtains]

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folding preflop in the million against an unknown would be absurd. i like a raise better than a complete, but a complete is certainly better than folding

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It's absurd to fold 42s out of position? This is one of the most insane things I've ever heard. You don't beat these guys by playing garbage out of position, you beat them by having good hands and watching them throw their money at you.

I don't think not folding is terrible or anything, but to call folding "absurd" is a ridiculous and gross overstatement.

[djk123]

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folding preflop in the million against an unknown would be absurd. i like a raise better than a complete, but a complete is certainly better than folding

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It's absurd to fold 42s out of position? This is one of the most insane things I've ever heard. You don't beat these guys by playing garbage out of position, you beat them by having good hands and watching them throw their money at you.

I don't think not folding is terrible or anything, but to call folding "absurd" is a ridiculous and gross overstatement.

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it's sb vs bb and bb likely sucks. why on earth would you want to fold 2 suited cards? The only times i fold here is when I'm playing too many tables and not paying enough attention.

[curtains]

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can we plz not talk about preflop... just let it be, i'm better then them postflop, and am easily easily easily winning chips with this hand after completing here against unknown and prefer to play it this way over raising. There are many things in the arsenal and I am not planning to limp-call pre, ok? does everyone really want to stack off 200 bb's on this flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree on this. I think it is perfectly valid to talk about preflop in every single tournament hand you ever play. And you can talk about how much better than everyone else you are postflop; and it is obviously true; but part of that edge is always going to be the basics of applying fundamentals like hand selection and position better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, I hate the "lets not talk about preflop donks". Your preflop decision sets the stage for everything that happens later in the hand. Why in the world would anyone want to ignore the part of the hand that set all of the events into motion.

Okay there are many different styles that can be applied, and very often no clear answers (just as there often aren't preflop). However preflop situations come up more often than postflop situations, and given that there are often huge disagreements, I find it sort of silly that people are constantly not wanting to talk about it.

Also preflop play is the part of the hand where reads are often the least important. Since it's very difficult to convey reads and tells and etc on a messageboard, it's another reason why it makes a lot of sense.

Basically what I'm trying to say is preflop play is very very important. It's almost surely the most important part of "online" tournament play.

[curtains]

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folding preflop in the million against an unknown would be absurd. i like a raise better than a complete, but a complete is certainly better than folding

[/ QUOTE ]

It's absurd to fold 42s out of position? This is one of the most insane things I've ever heard. You don't beat these guys by playing garbage out of position, you beat them by having good hands and watching them throw their money at you.

I don't think not folding is terrible or anything, but to call folding "absurd" is a ridiculous and gross overstatement.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's sb vs bb and bb likely sucks. why on earth would you want to fold 2 suited cards? The only times i fold here is when I'm playing too many tables and not paying enough attention.

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You aren't giving any logical reasons for playing the hand other than BB sucks and why fold any suited cards. Again, as I previously stated, the main reason that people suck is because they play too many weak hands. Sure there are other reasons why players are bad, but this is by far the most important reason. In fact most "bad" players would immediately become mediocre players if they simply played better hands preflop. We are completely losing this advantage over a bad player once we limp in out of position with 42s.

So do they suck because they will let us bluff them out postflop too often? Do they suck because if we flop 2 pair or better they are going to just blindly throw all their chips at us? How often are we going to make such flops?

[djk123]

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folding preflop in the million against an unknown would be absurd. i like a raise better than a complete, but a complete is certainly better than folding

[/ QUOTE ]

It's absurd to fold 42s out of position? This is one of the most insane things I've ever heard. You don't beat these guys by playing garbage out of position, you beat them by having good hands and watching them throw their money at you.

I don't think not folding is terrible or anything, but to call folding "absurd" is a ridiculous and gross overstatement.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's sb vs bb and bb likely sucks. why on earth would you want to fold 2 suited cards? The only times i fold here is when I'm playing too many tables and not paying enough attention.

[/ QUOTE ]

You aren't giving any logical reasons for playing the hand other than BB sucks and why fold any suited cards. Again, as I previously stated, the main reason that people suck is because they play too many weak hands. Sure there are other reasons why players are bad, but this is by far the most telling reason. We are completely losing this advantage over a bad player once we limp in out of position with 42s.

So do they suck because they will let us bluff them out postflop too often? Do they suck because if we flop 2 pair or better they are going to just blindly throw all their chips at us? How often are we going to make such flops?

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, I'm advocating a raise, not a limp.

I agree my reasoning sounds illogical, but I'm not really sure how to explain it. We'll hit some big flops sometimes, but we'll also take the pot down with a cbet frequently. And just in general we are going to play better than BB postflop. We aren't going to stack off with a crappy two pair, but I've seen people in the million stack off early on with as little as top pair.

Also, if we fold, we don't gain any information on the BB. But if we play the hand, we might be able to pick up on something that could help us later on.