NL25 FR: 2 AK hands facing aggression.. help!

roll · #1 06-09-2007, 06:12 PM

HAND 1

UTG+1 is a 19.16/7.07 over 835 hands.

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $0.75, 5 folds, Hero raises to $3, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($6.25, 2 players)
Hero bets $4.5, UTG+1 raises to $9, Hero ?

Shove? Fold? Call down? Whats my plan for the rest of the hand?

----------------

HAND 2

UTG is a 13.58/3.70 over 81 hands

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG raises to $1, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO raises all-in $3.75, Hero calls, 2 folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($16.35, 3 players + 1 all-in - Main pot: $16.35)
UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $10, UTG raises all-in $26.15, MP1 folds, Hero ?

Hows the 10$ bet here? Am I ever ahead given the shove?

Thanks for the help guys.

Specialwon · #2 06-09-2007, 06:22 PM

The stack sizes are missing from your post, that would help

roll · #3 06-09-2007, 06:59 PM

OK, heres the OP with stack sizes added, sorry about that...

HAND 1

Hero ($25 in chips)
BB ($17.05 in chips)
UTG ($21.70 in chips)
UTG+1 ($41.60 in chips)
UTG+2 ($25 in chips)
MP1 ($6.80 in chips)
MP2 ($12.50 in chips)
CO ($15.60 in chips)
BTN ($15.35 in chips)

UTG+1 is a 19.16/7.07 over 835 hands.

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $0.75, 5 folds, Hero raises to $3, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($6.25, 2 players)
Hero bets $4.5, UTG+1 raises to $9, Hero ?

Shove? Fold? Call down? Whats my plan for the rest of the hand?

----------------

HAND 2

Hero ($50.95 in chips)
SB ($15.85 in chips)
BB ($28.65 in chips)
UTG ($29.90 in chips)
UTG+1 ($23.65 in chips)
UTG+2 ($27.25 in chips)
MP1 ($7.60 in chips)
MP2 ($6.50 in chips)
CO ($3.75 in chips)

UTG is a 13.58/3.70 over 81 hands

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG raises to $1, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO raises all-in $3.75, Hero calls, 2 folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($16.35, 3 players + 1 all-in - Main pot: $16.35)
UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $10, UTG raises all-in $26.15, MP1 folds, Hero ?

Hows the 10$ bet here? Am I ever ahead given the shove?

Thanks for the help guys.

karlwig · #4 06-09-2007, 07:10 PM

Hand 2 is a clear call IMO. What were you doing in the pot in the first place if you're gonna fold on flop after hitting TPTK? While the all-in might seem scary, it really only is a little more than a min-raise... so definately call.

Hand 1 is a little more complicated since villian has lots of money behind. I don't think I would fold though, as he could easilly raise with lots of worse hands. It's also cheap to continiue. I lean towards a call to see a turn. I would be careful the rest of the hand though.

piebear · #5 06-09-2007, 07:34 PM

any possible reads/stats on villains?

first hand: you probably have him beat. c/c to the river and let him hang himself if he has a worst hand (which is most likely)

second hand: tough call. It looks like AQ or 99 A LOT. no sure about this one

roll · #6 06-09-2007, 07:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2 is a clear call IMO. What were you doing in the pot in the first place if you're gonna fold on flop after hitting TPTK?

[/ QUOTE ]

What I'm doing in the pot is trying to get called down by worse hands (worse aces, flush draws, etc). What I'm trying to avoid is getting stacked by AQ and sets in this hand.

How often does UTG, who raised preflop and check-raised all in on the flop for another 3/5 of a buy in, have a worse ace or a flush draw there? Whats UTGs range after the CRAI? Am I ahead 25% of the time?

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 is a little more complicated since villian has lots of money behind. I don't think I would fold though, as he could easilly raise with lots of worse hands. It's also cheap to continiue. I lean towards a call to see a turn. I would be careful the rest of the hand though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't seem to find a fold on that flop either, especially with the flush draw present. The problem is once I call, whats my plan for the rest of the hand? Heres the next street in the hand (HAND 1):

Hero calls $4.5 on flop...

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($24.25, 2 players)
Board is: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $6, Hero ?

I find it hard to fold here but it looks so much like UTG+1 is milking some monster hand... Whats UTG+1's range given the flop raise and turn bet?

roll · #7 06-09-2007, 07:41 PM

villains' stats are in op..

Thrahl · #8 06-09-2007, 08:44 PM

Hand 1. Very likely villain has AK as well. Call flop raise, shove if turn comes a heart, otherwise call down.

hand 2. fold, you're toast here

RyanCMU · #9 06-09-2007, 09:56 PM

Hand 1 - Surprised no one has said fold yet, this is a lot closer then people think...

How are people saying call!? Calling is the worst of the choices, If we just call we are left with $12ish and the pot will be $25ish on the turn, um mm no...

To the guy above who said shove if the turn comes a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] We have $12 betting into a $25 pot on the turn here, we have no fold equity ever...

While I think it is unlikely villain has a FD the only plausible holding would be something like KQ[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I think when you take a look at a 19/7's (I wonder what his AF factor is? Its important to post that stat as well) ep opening range and then he called your 3bet (which you should have made larger since you are OOP) His range has us crushed here and we are really only ahead of AQ/AJ (and I think AJ might not be all that likely).

So for a 19/7/x to raise in ep, call a 3bet and then raise the flop his hand is pretty strong here man, and we are not really ahead of much...

We have to decide right now if we are stacking off here or not... If he is bad enough to play AQ like this he is clearly stacking off with it to our shove, and calling just allows him to catch up...Along with allowing other random hands that we can't put him on get there as well. And its obvious a flop shove never folds out hands we beat, and the only real hand that we actually beat that he can have here is something like AQ.

Once he raises the flop (even though its a gay min raise) I think his range becomes; 44, TT, AT, KQs, AK, AQ, AA, and not much else... Im not factoring in hands like worse Aces because I don't think he raises the flop with them and most pairs JJ-KK I don't think he plays this way either... So thats what I think his range is...

So if we stick with that as his range on the flop... We are a 45/55 dog...

So I think the choices are -- Fold >> Shove >> Call

Hand 2 - Fold, don't need to explain this one I hope...

RyanCMU · #10 06-09-2007, 10:03 PM

However if you think hes a bad player and would play a worse A this way or would play KK stupid like this, then I like a shove more then a fold...Also, if you think his EP opening and then calling your 3bet range is a lot wider like lots of random suited junk and stuff, then a shove I like even more becuase it allows us to add possible FD's to his hand range so we have more hands that we are ahead of here...

So if you think the things above shove, if not fold..

So yea hand 1 is really close and I hope my original post was clear haha..