Wake up democrats!

[old dogg]

The presidential election of 2008 is critically important. Because we are on the verge of a world war which is certainly to be much more violent than the last one. Looking at the current line-up of candidates and the sad state of campaigning of both parties, I`m both appalled and scared.
The republicans have the weight of the Bush presidency hanging around their necks with no one in the press giving them any credit at all, as if any position they take is shared by the president. For the democrats it is even worse.
Barak Obama made a naive and irresponsible statement about his willingness to talk to anyone at anytime without precondition. When Hillary Clinton calls him on it he responded with the accusation that her position was Bush-like. It has become accepted that everything Bush does is wrong. The democrats are painting themselves into a corner with irresponsible and dangerous polices, solely because it is the opposite of what Bush would do.If the adults don`t get control of the party we are all in trouble.
The depth of Bush hatred will only be eased when a democrat is elected president... if the democratic party doesn`t implode first. The democrats seem well on the way to nominate another unelectable candidate. Their money and power base is so far left, that any candidate with even a slightly moderate view stands no chance at all.
Barak Obama can take a irresponsible and dangerous position with the knowledge that the left wing base in the party will support him, if only because the position he takes is opposite to that of Bush`s. The democrats can hold a debate and not even mention the islamic fascist that are at war with us. Democrats act and speak as if the islamic fascist aren`t the enemy, Bush is!
It is looking like the adults won`t be able to gain control of the party,and because the republicans will most likely nominate a moderate, they will win the white house again. This will leave us an even angrier and more bitter democratic party, ensuring the cycle of ugly partisan politics that is hurting us all.

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
The presidential election of 2008 is critically important. Because we are on the verge of a world war which is certainly to be much more violent than the last one. Looking at the current line-up of candidates and the sad state of campaigning of both parties, I`m both appalled and scared.
The republicans have the weight of the Bush presidency hanging around their necks with no one in the press giving them any credit at all, as if any position they take is shared by the president. For the democrats it is even worse.
Barak Obama made a naive and irresponsible statement about his willingness to talk to anyone at anytime without precondition. When Hillary Clinton calls him on it he responded with the accusation that her position was Bush-like. It has become accepted that everything Bush does is wrong. The democrats are painting themselves into a corner with irresponsible and dangerous polices, solely because it is the opposite of what Bush would do.If the adults don`t get control of the party we are all in trouble.
The depth of Bush hatred will only be eased when a democrat is elected president... if the democratic party doesn`t implode first. The democrats seem well on the way to nominate another unelectable candidate. Their money and power base is so far left, that any candidate with even a slightly moderate view stands no chance at all.
Barak Obama can take a irresponsible and dangerous position with the knowledge that the left wing base in the party will support him, if only because the position he takes is opposite to that of Bush`s. The democrats can hold a debate and not even mention the islamic fascist that are at war with us. Democrats act and speak as if the islamic fascist aren`t the enemy, Bush is!
It is looking like the adults won`t be able to gain control of the party,and because the republicans will most likely nominate a moderate, they will win the white house again. This will leave us an even angrier and more bitter democratic party, ensuring the cycle of ugly partisan politics that is hurting us all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Best first post ever...and from a Democrat no less.

The problem, old_dogg, is that it is that the "adults" in your party are the far left precipitate of the 60s. They have latched on to and are beholden to the "new left" Soros and moveon for financial support.

There is certainly no one in the Democrat political scene who can engender support for more moderate positions, so the only way they can win in the short term to play the anti-Bush card. Its easy, makes great sound bites, and you don't have to propose solutions.

Where I fear you are wrong is that the current candidtates are "non-electable". As always it will depend on events and conditions close to the election, not long term platforms and positions, which I think are still way to the left of the majority of Americans.

Obama and Clinton have huge holes in their credentials. Unfortunately, their "non-electibility" actually rest in bigotry and racism, a tragic way to win an election.

[adios]

I'm sure someone will state this being a post I made from a gimmick account. Anyway I'm a little surprised myself at the current level of Bush administration hatred. My reaction to things like the bruhaha over the Gonzales testimony is that it's lot of carping without much evidence provided to substantiate the position of the Democrats. Maybe they're right about Gonzales and Bush but they've made a weak case so far IMO. If they are right, hopefully they'll make a better case than they have because if they don't it's really not much more than an elevated level of vitriol. Waiting for the post that states there's nothing the Democrats can do because the Bush administration trumps all investigations into possible illegal activity since Gonzo is the head of the Justice Department and Bush can pardon any wrong doers he sees fit to pardon. This guy doesn't agree with that viewpoint and he's not a Bush supporter by any means. Time for the Democrats in Congress to do something about Gonzales and Bush instead of making accusations that go nowhere:


Congress's Power to Compel

[old dogg]

thank you...copernicus,happy you enjoyed my post. But I`m not a democrat but rather a moderate independent. I also think Joe Biden fills the moderate role for the dems,just have to watch and see.

[iron81]

What the OP describes as a radicalization of the Democratic party is really just a super standard play to the base primary campaign. Both parties candidates usually move away from the middle during the primaries. As for whether the Dems are painting themselves into a corner, a poll I saw yesterday suggested that Obama's position on negotiating with dictators is popular. Even among the general public, much less the Democratic base. I love it when there's a happy coincidence of being right and being politically popular.

Also, the Dems are perfectly capable of nominating a moderate: its Hillary. I know conservatives (irrationally) hate her, but she is popular among moderates, just like her husband. Also, I'll admit that I didn't pay close attention to the debates, but I can't imagine the Dems didn't talk about terrorism.

[UATrewqaz]

I believe the depth of the Bush hatred is rooted alot more in Florida 2000 than it has to do with Iraq.

The dems have had sour grapes about him from the beginning.

[NeBlis]

[ QUOTE ]
I believe the depth of the Bush hatred is rooted alot more in Florida 2000 than it has to do with Iraq.

The dems have had sour grapes about him from the beginning.

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone who believes in the "stolen election". Or holds a grudge over morans who can't punch holes in cards. Needs to die in a grease fire.

[UATrewqaz]

I agree and so does every recount ever taken.

It should also be noted the Reps would be just as bitter if it had been Gore winning by <1000 votes and they would be the ones spouting the "stolen election" nonsense.

[bdk3clash]

I love baseless allegations and unsupported generalities as much as anyone, but could you possibly provide any supporting evidence (anecdotal, statistical, mythological, etc.) for the claims you make?

Specifically, I'd like to see what makes you state the following. (I've bolded what I think are particularly dubious claims):

[ QUOTE ]
The republicans have the weight of the Bush presidency hanging around their necks with no one in the press giving them any credit at all, as if any position they take is shared by the president.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Barak Obama made a naive and irresponsible statement about his willingness to talk to anyone at anytime without precondition.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
When Hillary Clinton calls him on it he responded with the accusation that her position was Bush-like.

[/ QUOTE ]
Is this the same Hillary Clinton who stated:

[ QUOTE ]
"You don't refuse to talk to bad people. I think life is filled with uncomfortable situations where you have to deal with people you might not like. I'm sort of an expert on that. I have consistently urged the president to talk to Iran and talk to Syria. I think it's a sign of strength, not weakness."

[/ QUOTE ]?

[ QUOTE ]
The democrats are painting themselves into a corner with irresponsible and dangerous polices, solely because it is the opposite of what Bush would do.

[/ QUOTE ]
What are these "irresponsible and dangerous policies" you refer to? On what basis do you make the claim that Democrats are "painting themselves into a corner...solely because it is the opposite of what Bush would do"?

[ QUOTE ]
If the adults don`t get control of the party we are all in trouble.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who are the "adults" in the party? What kind of trouble will we all be in?

[ QUOTE ]
The depth of Bush hatred will only be eased when a democrat is elected president...

[/ QUOTE ]
Framing opposition to the current administration as "Bush hatred" delegitimizes reality-based criticism as partisan bickering. Do you distinguish between the two? If so, in what ways?

[ QUOTE ]
The democrats seem well on the way to nominate another unelectable candidate.

[/ QUOTE ]
What, specifically, are you basing this on? "Unelectable"? As far as I can tell this is not true. PollingReport, which aggregates polls from multiple sources, reports:

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"Now thinking about the next election for president in 2008, if the election for U.S. president were held today, would you be voting for the Democratic candidate or the Republican candidate?" Options rotated

[Republican Candidate: 27%, Democratic Candidate: 51%]

[/ QUOTE ]

Multiple polls there show Hillary Clinton ahead of Rudy Giuliani in a head-to-head matchup, Barack Obama ahead of Giuliani in a head-to-head matchup, and similar outcomes for Clinton and Obama against John McCain, Mitt Romney, and Fred Thompson. (There are some exceptions to this trend, such as Giuliani beating Clinton in the George Washington University poll, Obama losing to Giuliani in the Gallup poll, and a few others.)

Does it seem reasonable that "The democrats seem well on the way to nominate another unelectable candidate"?

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Their money and power base is so far left, that any candidate with even a slightly moderate view stands no chance at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

What positions, specifically, has the Democrats' "money and power base" taken that are "so far left"? Who are the Democrats' "money and power base"? What are these "slightly moderate views" and in what way do they "stand no chance at all."

[ QUOTE ]
Barak Obama can take a irresponsible and dangerous position with the knowledge that the left wing base in the party will support him, if only because the position he takes is opposite to that of Bush`s.

[/ QUOTE ]
What are you basing this on? From the article I linked to before:

[ QUOTE ]
The Obama campaign, meanwhile, circulated a memo by Obama spokesman Bill Burton saying Obama's response to the question had played well with focus groups and that Clinton had changed her position on the subject — a claim her campaign denied.

Anthony Lake, an Obama foreign policy adviser who was national security adviser early in President Clinton's administration, defended Obama's statements.

"A great nation and its president should never fear negotiating with anyone and Senator Obama rightly said he would be willing to do so — just as Richard Nixon did with China and Ronald Reagan with the Soviet Union," Lake said.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The democrats can hold a debate and not even mention the islamic fascist that are at war with us. Democrats act and speak as if the islamic fascist aren`t the enemy, Bush is!

[/ QUOTE ]
What debate has taken place where the issue of Islamic terrorism hasn't been discussed? Do Democrats have to accept the Bush administration's formulation of the "Global War on Terror" to count as "adults"?

[ QUOTE ]
It is looking like the adults won`t be able to gain control of the party,and because the republicans will most likely nominate a moderate, they will win the white house again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who is the "moderate" that the Republicans will nominate? On what issues are they moderate? On one of the most important issues for the upcoming election--the war on Iraq--the Republican front runners find themselves firmly outside the mainstream American opinion (but well within the opinion of Republicans.)

[ QUOTE ]
This will leave us an even angrier and more bitter democratic party, ensuring the cycle of ugly partisan politics that is hurting us all.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, there's always a muddled bipartisan compromise out of any crisis.

[irunnotgood]

LOL.
In 2004 the democrats nominated a relative centrist in John Kerry not Howard Dean. In 2000 they nominated Al Gore over the more liberal Bill Bradley both in the name of electability.
Without arguing the merits of what Obama said, it shouldn't be a surprise that candidates appeal to the outer edges of their partys' base during the primary season. Just look at a recent Republican debate where one candidate stated he wanted to double the size of Guantanamo and several candidates stated they had no normal qualms with torture and wouldn't be opposed a nuclear first strike against Iran.
LOL, and not understanding why people don't like W. Misleading the country into a unnecessary war, plunging the country deeper in debt, infringing on civil liberties, and massive incompetence is just a start.