Tuff Fish's proposal cleared by CA Sec. of State for petition circ.

[TheEngineer]

www.insidebayarea.com/trivalleyherald/ci_6506278

Poker jokester creates stir with petition drive

Player wants to create Internet gambling agency

By Steve Geissinger, MEDIANEWS SACRAMENTO BUREAU

Article Last Updated: 07/31/2007 02:34:47 AM PDT

SACRAMENTO — An online poker player well known as a jokester in the Internet gaming community is wheeling and dealing for state government to set up an online version of the popular card game, with a huge pot on the table — Californians' pocketbooks.
The secretary of state's office late Friday cleared Anthony Sandstrom of San Diego, known as "Tuff Fish" in YouTube poker comedies, to circulate petitions putting his proposed initiative on a statewide ballot, where voters could create an Internet poker gambling agency.

By Monday, as they said in the Old West days of the game, the stakeholders had knocked over the table and were drawing their (political) six-guns over the proposal.

Fellow Internet poker enthusiasts were divided, with comments on numerous blogs ranging from "good work" to "give me a break."

Flatly opposed were card rooms in the Los Angeles and San Francisco Bay Area, anti-gambling-expansion activists and educators, who fear diversion and loss of lottery funds.

Sandstrom acknowledges his initiative isn't aimed at solving some big social problem.

It would mostly allow Internet poker gambling at a time when federal law has thrown the activity into a legal gray area, posing a possible court challenge in which the state would have to defend Internet gambling.

"I am just a guy who wants to play poker at home when I don't feel like making an hour drive to a card room or casino," Sandstrom said on his initiative Web site.

"I am going to make a mighty effort to make safe, legal, and accessible online poker possible."

Sandstrom, who did not respond to attempts to contact him directly, says the proposal also would provide money for repair of potholes on city roads.

"A pox on the initiative," said Fred Glass, a spokesman for the California Federation of Teachers, whose members depend partially on the flow of funds from state-run lottery.

Analysts were cautious over whether Sandstrom could collect the required signatures — about 430,000 — by Christmas. One cited the kickoff day for recalling former Gov. Gray Davis, when most experts said the initiative didn't have a chance.

The wild card in the game is the Internet. Sandstrom is trying to collect the signatures via the Internet, where he's better known as "Tuff Fish." Supporters can download the petitions for gathering of signatures.

Numerous Web sites addressing Internet poker and the "Tuff Fish" initiative included players asserting that his version of the game to be placed before voters is so flawed it would not be self-sustaining.

[TheEngineer]

TF removed the high rake and the criminalization of PokerTracker. The initiative still restricts players to one table, though. Fortunately, of all the negatives he could have kept, he kept the one most likely to be overridden by the state, as they'll make more money by permitting multitabling.

As I've said before, this is a political battle. We have to show that we have the support of the American people. If the initiative gets on the ballot and fails, the media won't report that it failed because poker players wanted to multitable or any other detail. They'll simply report that Californians didn't want any legal Internet gambling, not even poker. We can't have that. Given that the bill isn't as bad now, unless we get a better initiative I think we should all support this enthusiastically (despite its history) if it gets on the ballot.

[Legislurker]

What would be the process of removing the multitabling provisions? Another initiative? I would vote No still strictly on that if I were in California, even if I know I can run VM, gotomypc, or run multiple machines to get around it, its still the nittiest, gayest, stubbornest provision imaginable. Why would he alienate his biggest supporters in such a way? And, someone has to lobby the unions, they can kill almost anything. The indians and the cardrooms are hard enough to fight, but add in a voting bloc, its DOA. Fixing potholes? Come on, find a better place for the revenue stream to go and get some allies.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
What would be the process of removing the multitabling provisions? Another initiative? I would vote No still strictly on that if I were in California, even if I know I can run VM, gotomypc, or run multiple machines to get around it, its still the nittiest, gayest, stubbornest provision imaginable. Why would he alienate his biggest supporters in such a way? And, someone has to lobby the unions, they can kill almost anything. The indians and the cardrooms are hard enough to fight, but add in a voting bloc, its DOA. Fixing potholes? Come on, find a better place for the revenue stream to go and get some allies.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was originally for teachers, and you see how grateful they are. Again, my comment was if it makes the ballot. We may be better off if it doesn't go anywhere.

It's hard to see how he could get anywhere near 430,000 signatures. He thinks he can get this just on the Internet. I have news for him. I spent a month doing as much as I could to get poker players to sign the Internet petition to repeal UIGEA. I estimated that I was able to get 1,800 signatures more than it would have gotten without our efforts here. I can't imagine how he can get 220x that from one state, when poker player support for him is lukewarm at best. Still, if he manages this without torquing us any more than he already has, and if there isn't a better bill, I'll support it.

[Lucky]

[ QUOTE ]


It's hard to see how he could get anywhere near 430,000 signatures. He thinks he can get this just on the Internet. I have news for him. I spent a month doing as much as I could to get poker players to sign the Internet petition to repeal UIGEA. I estimated that I was able to get 1,800 signatures more than it would have gotten without our efforts here. I can't imagine how he can get 220x that from one state, when poker player support for him is lukewarm at best. Still, if he manages this without torquing us any more than he already has, and if there isn't a better bill, I'll support it.

[/ QUOTE ]


As this may become an initiative in largest, most important state in U.S., cant tuff send this to PPA, Cardplayer, Pokernews.com, gambling 911, etc for them to link, write up on their sites?

[Lucky]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


It's hard to see how he could get anywhere near 430,000 signatures. He thinks he can get this just on the Internet. I have news for him. I spent a month doing as much as I could to get poker players to sign the Internet petition to repeal UIGEA. I estimated that I was able to get 1,800 signatures more than it would have gotten without our efforts here. I can't imagine how he can get 220x that from one state, when poker player support for him is lukewarm at best. Still, if he manages this without torquing us any more than he already has, and if there isn't a better bill, I'll support it.

[/ QUOTE ]


As this may become an initiative in largest, most important state in U.S., cant tuff send this to PPA, Cardplayer, Pokernews.com, gambling 911, etc for them to link, write up on their sites?

[/ QUOTE ]

also, how about a press release: http://www.prnewswire.com/
tuff could take donations an make it happen.

[Analyst]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What would be the process of removing the multitabling provisions? Another initiative? I would vote No still strictly on that if I were in California, even if I know I can run VM, gotomypc, or run multiple machines to get around it, its still the nittiest, gayest, stubbornest provision imaginable. Why would he alienate his biggest supporters in such a way? And, someone has to lobby the unions, they can kill almost anything. The indians and the cardrooms are hard enough to fight, but add in a voting bloc, its DOA. Fixing potholes? Come on, find a better place for the revenue stream to go and get some allies.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was originally for teachers, and you see how grateful they are. Again, my comment was if it makes the ballot. We may be better off if it doesn't go anywhere.


[/ QUOTE ]

The California Teachers Association is against a bill that will bring them money? Honestly, this is pretty hard to imagine - you can't listen to the radio for more than ten minutes without hearing an ad from the teacher's union asking for more funding in one way or another.

[Tuff_Fish]

[ QUOTE ]
What would be the process of removing the multitabling provisions? Another initiative?

[/ QUOTE ]

Read the initiative, it clearly spells out how it can be amended.

But bear in mind that you will be arguing your cause in front of folks who are not at all interested in the well being of pro grinders. They will be interested in the longer term financial picture and the well being of the recreational plyer.

A good argument can, and has been, made that multitabling grinders are bad for the overall health of the industry.

I hope to engage some of you in front of the legislature on this subject someday.

[img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Tuff

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
A good argument can, and has been, made that multitabling grinders are bad for the overall health of the industry.

[/ QUOTE ]

No it hasn't. Casinos take money from gamblers as fast as they'll give it up....they're in no danger of going out of business. As for the Internet, online roulette flourishes as well.

I don't understand why I'm "greedy" by expecting to be able to make money at this activity when casinos are not. The fish can learn to play just like everyone else.

So, how are you going to get all those signatures? Door to door by yourself?

[Bilgefisher]

Pardon me, but at least he got off his ass and did something. Seems to me folks want the whole shabang at once. Small steps. This could really open the floodgates. Other provisions would follow. I say take what you can get.