NL50: 3bet pot weird spot versus solid regular

[Check_The_Nuts]

Villian here is AcowsayMOOO. I have him as 20/16/3 maybe slightly tighter. He's a pretty well known regular, and more competent than a lot of villians I face.

Preflop probably isn't good, but I'm OK with that. My turn and river options I think we're very interesting. I'm not sure what his shove range would be on the turn if I lead, and I hate leading the flop.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 4 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BTN: $100.30
Hero (SB): $78.75
BB: $27.55
UTG: $57.80

Pre-Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB)
UTG folds, <font color="red">BTN raises to $2</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $6.50</font>, BB folds, BTN calls $4.50

Flop: ($13.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $8</font>, Hero calls $8

Turn: ($29.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $15</font>, Hero calls $15

River: ($59.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero ?

[bozzer]

i was gonna respond, but i need more info - history/reads?

[ama0330]

I really don’t like this at all. The whole point in 3betting this hand preflop is that you are running a bluff/semibluff, not playing for value. You must bet this flop for the following reasons:

1. You are relying on FE to win this hand. This is a bluff and you can’t make him fold by checking

2. C/c here is totally –ev because you can be sure that he has a better hand than yours and you are not being offered the correct odds to call

3. Your hand is reasonably transparent and if the spade hits theres a good chance that it kills your action so you wont be able to collect on your implied odds, but

4. Given that this is a 3bet pot your implied odds arent really there anyway.

So I would most DEF be betting the flop. If he raises, you fold. Your bluff failed, too bad, move on. If you want to c/c the flop its so you can checkraise the turn allin and fold out some longshot hand that he doesn’t like the look of. You have to show some aggression somewhere because you are bluffing!! You have the worst hand and no odds to draw – how can you c/c down?

As played, what are you wondering about on the river? Shove and hope hes dumb enough to call with an ace – he checks behind here a LOT.

[wslee00]

why no flop bet?

[Check_The_Nuts]

He wouldn't have any reads on me. I just knew he was solid because of the FTP thread. He'd view me as 18/15/3 and straightforward.

I have no reason to think he's calling me light preflop, so thats why I'm checking. If he bet this flop big I'd probably just fold, but he underbet both the flop+turn, and I picked up the gutterball draw on the turn.

Ama I would think my implied odds go up because its a reraised pot, not down. If I for some crazy reason cold called 24s preflop, I would never even consider calling the turn, and maybe not even the flop (prefering to just lead).

Humm ok I'm liking the bet flop line more. He's going to just call with AK, sometimes raise air, and any big hands (like sets etc.) and I'll just fold for relatively cheap.

On the turn I have direct odds to call unless I'm counting them wrong (25% to win, he offered me 3:1).

[BevillTheDevil]

the 3bet pf is fine w/ me if you know he is positionally aware and if you havent been doin it alot. IMO you should bet this flop everytime. We have plenty of FE and have a few outs if we hit the turn. Plus I can see villian callin w/ much on the flop (given his range).

As played id probably just fold on the turn. Odds wise I dont think are good enough, implied not sure but i dont think your gona stack this guy if you do hit that often, and you would have 4 high flush where hands like AKs, and AJs are def in his range.
By the river im not really that sure cause i play the hand completely differently but i might just c/c cause i cant see you gettin value from many hands you beat (his callin range isnt very wide on the river), maybe AQ and i think AQ bets here anyways. Only reason i can see a bet here being good is b/c AK is more likely to call than bet here IMO. but like i said im not sure about the river myself...

[ama0330]

[ QUOTE ]
Ama I would think my implied odds go up because its a reraised pot, not down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your implied odds go down because you increase the bet size and therefore reduce the effective stack size, cutting your implied odds.

[Daniel LeClaire]

I'd say work on your table selection first of all. Playing 4 handed with a decent reg doesn't seem very smart.

Preflop is unnecessary and really bad. He's going to be calling lighter than usual since he has position and stacks are a little deeper.

I would lead the flop hoping just to take it down. You have a draw but it's going to expensive to draw in a 3 bet pot OOP. You also are giving up any chance to steal the pot.

As played, you might as well lead the river for maybe 1/2 pot. He'll be checking behind a lot of hands that would call a bet.

[Check_The_Nuts]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ama I would think my implied odds go up because its a reraised pot, not down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your implied odds go down because you increase the bet size and therefore reduce the effective stack size, cutting your implied odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

sounds like your assuming he's going to put a lot of money in the pot with worse than a small flush after the flush hits. I don't think this is true unless the pot is reraised.

However, getting value on this river is still tricky. Not sure of the amount I should bet.

[Check_The_Nuts]

Daniel,

I like your bet size on the river. I assume your folding to a raise?