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#1
10-21-2007, 02:32 PM
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Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
isn't gaming associates on the case? They seem like a nice third party...
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#2
10-21-2007, 02:36 PM
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Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
I have dissected the AP statement. All bolding is done by me for emphasis.
[ QUOTE ] Dear AP Player: I am the former Grand Chief of the Mohawk Territory of Kahnawake and the owner of Tokwiro Enterprises ENRG, which holds a 100% interest in Absolute Poker. [/ QUOTE ] And a 100% interest in the KGC. And a 100% interest in MIT. [ QUOTE ] As many of our players are aware, there has been a security breach in our system that allowed unlawful access to player information that resulted in unfair play. [/ QUOTE ] Admission that this was a criminal act. [ QUOTE ] I am writing to you today to let you know what we know so far in order to set the record straight, and to assure you of AP’s commitment to player security. I am sure that this letter will not address all of the questions and concerns you may have, nor will it extinguish the heated discussion surrounding this issue. At this point, our intention is to let you know all we can disclose and to assure you of our continued efforts to keep you informed as best we can as the investigations continue. [/ QUOTE ] Bolded statement is clearly included to discredit any further discussion of this statement and create the impression that their story is the truth in the larger player community and in the mass media. [ QUOTE ] We deeply regret this situation has occurred. A breach in security in online poker is serious and of great concern to players and the industry worldwide, and this particular situation has been the subject of debate within the poker player community and in the media, giving rise to the creation of several websites and hundreds and hundreds of comments, opinions, and theories of what occurred – some of which are accurate, and some that are not. Like you, I have not been happy that during the initial stage of our investigation, AP has not been more forthcoming in providing a timely or comprehensive explanation on this matter, giving rise to anger, suspicion, and concern on the part of our valued customers. I hope that our customers can appreciate that this remains an incredibly complex and sensitive issue, and I want to give you my strongest possible assurance that we will be as forthcoming as possible on how this breach occurred and what we are doing to remedy the situation. [/ QUOTE ] Not been more forthcoming? Is that what you call repeatedly lying to customers and media over the course of months? It is fact that AP tried to cover this up. It is not "less than forthcoming". It is not incompetence. It is a coverup, a snowjob, a deliberate attempt to obfuscate the issue and those involved. Regarding the second part, either Joe Norton is being lied to and telling us what he erroneously believes to be the truth, or this is just another blatant lie in AP arsenal of lies. Nothing AP ever says should ever be given credence again. Further, Joe Norton should be contacted directly and made aware that the information he is disseminating lies and misinformation. I can only hope that he holds some higher allegiance to his tribe and will put pressure on AP in order to save the integrity of his tribe. [ QUOTE ] What We Know and Actions We Have Taken AP was notified by a customer that a possible cheating incident occurred during a recent tournament, and in response forwarded players’ hand logs. This disclosure of the hand logs prompted our customers to determine that a more serious security breach had occurred. We immediately launched an internal investigation and also requested a formal audit by Gaming Associates, an acknowledged world-wide expert in audits, interactive gaming tests, and information security. [/ QUOTE ] This statement ignores the month long investigation AP carried on into the cheating before the POTRIPPER HHs were leaked. Again, wether Joe Norton is being lied to, or he is lying himself, as this statement is outright false in that it ignores the fact that AP was notified of the cheating weeks before said tournament became the focal point. Regarding the second point: (1) who is "we"? Is it Tokwiro Enterprises or AP? (2) There was, according to statements by AP, an open and ongoing investigation at the time. This statement is also false because AP can neither identify when an investigation began or even provide a lick of evidence that ANY "investigation" ever occurred. This continues to contradict what we know, their story keeps changing, and I expect it will continue to keep changing. [ QUOTE ] Based upon our preliminary findings, it appears that the integrity of our poker system was compromised by a high-ranking trusted consultant employed by AP whose position gave him extraordinary access to certain security systems. As has been speculated in several online forums, this consultant devised a sophisticated scheme to manipulate internal systems to access third-party computers and accounts to view hole cards of other customers during play without their knowledge. As this consultant was aware of the details of our fraud detection process, the likelihood that the scheme would be uncovered through our normal procedures was minimized. We consider this security breach to be a horrendous and inexcusable offense. [/ QUOTE ] Occam's Razor will have a nice time shredding this story. This "consultant" is going to be ins o many countries, in so many location, in so many accounts, that it will ridiculous. On the one hand I want to see AP try to piece this together and put out the "story" so that we can prove it wrong. But on the other hand its in their best interest to hide any details, so I expect we will never get more information than is contained here. Essentially "yeah, that one guy did it all, everything you said, he did" without any corroborating details. [ QUOTE ] We will pay for all losses suffered by the affected players as soon as our audit is finished and the amounts are determined. Although we are in the process of attempting to recover all the winnings of this consultant, any unrecovered losses of affected players will be paid by Absolute Poker so that all affected persons will be made whole. [/ QUOTE ] Good on them for making repayments to players. This is necessary. However the bolded portion above directly contradicts their previous statements to MSNBC and ABC News. I wonder how those journalist would feel when they find out there were lied to? Because they will find out. [ QUOTE ] Next Steps We are still investigating whether the consultant was acting alone or in concert with others, and it appears at this time that all account holders are innocent of collusion and were unaware of any wrong-doing by the consultant, who was immediately terminated. [/ QUOTE ] Many problems here. First, none of the account holders were ever accused of collusion, so this is a meaning less statement. Can AP prove that Scott Tom and AJ Green have never logged into AP within the last 3 months? Because if they can't, then obviously the account holders were in fact aware of the wrongdoing. And last, the consultant was terminated? Why weren't charges filed? AP itself (its owner anyway) admits these acts were unlawful. If charges are not pressed AP, Tokwiro Enterprises, and Joe Norton are complicit in allowing the cheating to go unpunished. [ QUOTE ] We continue to investigate this matter aggressively, and all of these preliminary findings are subject to the audits currently underway. We have recently uncovered additional accounts used by the consultant that have not been publicly reported. So as to not compromise the investigation, we are not releasing the names of these additional accounts at this time, and will contact these affected customers individually. [/ QUOTE ] Good. We need a timeframe for the audits. We need transparency. And we need evidence, not just conclusions. [ QUOTE ] The specific allegations of unlawful activity are being investigated both by AP and by the authorized authorities, including the Kahnawake Gaming Commission. [/ QUOTE ] I want this to be perfectly clear. Tokwinro Enterprises is a 100% owner of Absolute Poker and is also the owner of the Kahnawake Gaming Commission. They are "investigating" themselves. [ QUOTE ] We will continue to actively cooperate with these authorities in full compliance with the Regulations Concerning Interactive Gaming. In addition to our own investigation and the audit by Gaming Associates, we have also submitted to an audit by the Kahnawake Gaming Commission. [/ QUOTE ] Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. [ QUOTE ] Please be assured that we have corrected the problem that allowed the system to be unfairly manipulated. We are working furiously to increase the safeguards within our systems. While we are satisfied that our systems are secured, we realize that our security systems must be continuously monitored and enhanced. [/ QUOTE ] My apologies if I'm not assured that the problem has been "corrected". These are the same people who were given the exact account names and hands that were involved in the cheating and couldn't find anything in a month long investigation. And now, virtually overnight, they solved the problem? This is laughable, and appears to be just another baseless statement in the coverup of this scandal. And yes, you system do need to be monitored and enhanced. You must bring in outside experts. Try one of the big consulting firms. This will go a long way to restoring confidence. [ QUOTE ] Without question, this incident has been unfortunate for all concerned, and we will emerge as a stronger company. I realize it will take some time and much more information for AP to re-earn the trust and confidence of our customers who are in doubt of our commitment to the highest levels of security, privacy and integrity. As we move to address and correct this situation, our valued customers have played a vital role in uncovering this scheme through various online forums and have become an active part of the solution. [/ QUOTE ] This statement is filled with lies and only continues the cover up, and does nothing to restore consumer confidence and trust. More transparency. More openness. More audits. More independent observers. You can come out of this, but furthering the snowjob is not the way. [ QUOTE ] With my full sincerity, I thank you, and I promise to keep you updated as we bring this situation to a close. Sincerely, Joe Norton [/ QUOTE ] With my full sincerity, I tell you Joe Norton you are being lied to if you believe the things in your statement. We want safe games, the same as you. Please help us. |
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#4
10-21-2007, 02:41 PM
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Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
[ QUOTE ]
Kurt, Joe Norton is as concerned as you and will make sure these things are all looked into very closely! [/ QUOTE ] I figure anywhere we find traction is a good thing. From what we know of Joe Norton, I think its at least a likely (at this point) he is being lied to as it is he's in on the coverup. |
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#5
10-21-2007, 02:45 PM
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Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
I honestly don't know what you expect from Chief Norton or the KGC. It's crystal clear that KGC is nothing more than a front organization for the various gaming sites operated on the tribal territory.
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#6
10-21-2007, 02:47 PM
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Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
I am personally infuriated. They couldn't even come up with a fake name to give us?
I knew they weren't going to come out with the truth b/c i believe all the higher ups are involved, but to make it so obvious. I think it is time to reveal the information we have been holding back. |
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#7
10-21-2007, 02:50 PM
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Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
posted at p5s by brsavage
I received word while at lunch that the AP release is due out very shortly. In a nutshell they still have much of the investigation to complete, and that will take time. So far they have definitive proof as to who the culprit was, how he did it, and the fact that he did in fact cash out a significant amount. Further, I am being told that he had more accounts than even we had realized, and they are doing extensive investigations because some of these accounts were attempted to be deleted by him. This person was the second in charge and has been fired from AP, and his one superior Scott Tom is going to be removed from running AP for a significant period of time. For legal reasons the AP release is not going to specifically name this person, and I will elaborate on that fact and why it makes perfect sense. Most of us know this persons name already as it has already been widely reported. This person was Scott Tom's best friend and actually lived at Scott Tom's house in Costa Rica. Scott Tom has been living in Panama for quite some time, and the day to day operations of AP were left to the care of his best friend and second in charge at AP. Unfortunately since the person in command of AP was also the thief he obviously issued numerous steadfast denials of any wrong doing. Basically he was investigating himself. Since this person was a high ranking official he had access to very sensitive information, not only regarding the operations of the company, but also very sensitive information regarding player accounts, balances, names, deposits, withdrawals etc. Because of the Internet Gaming Act their is still a wide gray area as to what is sensitive and what is not. As such the attorneys for both AP and the KGC have the same opinion that is best not to release his name publicly for the simple fact that they do not want more harm being done to the industry as a result of this person possibly trying to disclose this information publicly as a retaliation for him being fired from AP. Further, even though Scott Tom was not involved in the actual theft, he is responsible for the actions of his friend and second in charge of the company, which is why he is being removed for a significant time frame while the entire process of restoring trust in AP takes place. I am being told that all monies players were cheated out of will be repaid. I also have made strong overtures and recommendations that in any case involving a player being cheated AP should err on the side of caution and compensate the player if their is any doubt that he was affected. As I stated before, they already have found several accounts that even we had not known about, and evidence of some accounts that the second in charge tried to delete. All of this investigation is going to take time, but it appears that simply based on this disclosure that they are definitively going to make a concerted effort to make things right. |
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#9
10-21-2007, 03:13 PM
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Re: AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT
[ QUOTE ]
posted at p5s by brsavage I received word while at lunch that the AP release is due out very shortly. In a nutshell they still have much of the To me this looks like they're laying the blame at AJ Green's feet, but refusing to name him in order that he can better avoid criminal prosecution. investigation to complete, and that will take time. So far they have definitive proof as to who the culprit was, how he did it, and the fact that he did in fact cash out a significant amount. Further, I am being told that he had more accounts than even we had realized, and they are doing extensive investigations because some of these accounts were attempted to be deleted by him. This person was the second in charge and has been fired from AP, and his one superior Scott Tom is going to be removed from running AP for a significant period of time. For legal reasons the AP release is not going to specifically name this person, and I will elaborate on that fact and why it makes perfect sense. Most of us know this persons name already as it has already been widely reported. This person was Scott Tom's best friend and actually lived at Scott Tom's house in Costa Rica. Scott Tom has been living in Panama for quite some time, and the day to day operations of AP were left to the care of his best friend and second in charge at AP. Unfortunately since the person in command of AP was also the thief he obviously issued numerous steadfast denials of any wrong doing. Basically he was investigating himself. Since this person was a high ranking official he had access to very sensitive information, not only regarding the operations of the company, but also very sensitive information regarding player accounts, balances, names, deposits, withdrawals etc. Because of the Internet Gaming Act their is still a wide gray area as to what is sensitive and what is not. As such the attorneys for both AP and the KGC have the same opinion that is best not to release his name publicly for the simple fact that they do not want more harm being done to the industry as a result of this person possibly trying to disclose this information publicly as a retaliation for him being fired from AP. Further, even though Scott Tom was not involved in the actual theft, he is responsible for the actions of his friend and second in charge of the company, which is why he is being removed for a significant time frame while the entire process of restoring trust in AP takes place. I am being told that all monies players were cheated out of will be repaid. I also have made strong overtures and recommendations that in any case involving a player being cheated AP should err on the side of caution and compensate the player if their is any doubt that he was affected. As I stated before, they already have found several accounts that even we had not known about, and evidence of some accounts that the second in charge tried to delete. All of this investigation is going to take time, but it appears that simply based on this disclosure that they are definitively going to make a concerted effort to make things right. [/ QUOTE ] I can only presume that the definitive proof relating to the who and how will be released for scrutiny... Basically at the moment they are laying the blame at AJ Green's feet for anything they acknowledge as criminal activity, but they won't publish his name presumably to insulate him from potential criminal prosecution. The line on Tom is somewhat confusing (he was not involved in the theft, but does have to take responsibility for the actions of Green. WTF?), but basically they're not admitting any wrongdoing on his part, and they're putting him out of sight for a while to regain consumer trust in AP. But wasn't their stance, like, two days ago that Scott Tom didn't work for AP anyway? This is all so absurd. |
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