Do you ever fold here? (lot of reading)

[pohuist]

DISCLAIMER: This is NOT a bad beat story. I have 2 legitimate questions. I just think I need to explain my state to get better answers.

After hitting a losing streak of 6 straight sessions to a tune of 150BB I decided to go down in limits. I am sitting in a juicy 10-20 game. One decent player (2+2-er) and a couple of wannabe pros (wannabe b/c they try to c/r a large field OOP when a flush card hits and slowplay every flop when they hit huge). They are winners though, b/c the rest of the players are so terrible that these ploys work, even though they win less b/c of playing backwards.

My table image is shot, and I am basically just trying to find out how much abuse can I take. I won 6 hands in 6 hours, while having the best run of cards in my life playing 4-5 hands a round. I just can't hit a single board. O/e straighflush draws failing to make even a pair and such. Basically, I can only win u/i and out of 10 big pairs (QQ+) I win 4, including a flopped set of Kings almost cracked but the board somehow paired on the river. 2 flopped sets also stood up.

The villain is one of the wannabes in SB. I limp in MP w/8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] after 2 limpers. H/J limps and button raises. Blinds and limpers call to me. I would normally 3 bet 7-handed but just call b/c of the way I run.
The flop comes 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I decide to c/r the field which is a terrible play on the draw heavy board. There is also a 2 flush which makes it even more egregious. I don't notice that though b/c at this point I am playing terrible, playing 24 hours of the last 48 with the above described results. Button bets SB and MP calls I c/r, c/o folds, button 3 bets everybody calls.

The turn is a 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I bet out, button calls, SB c/raises and MP folds. I check the board and it dawns on me that there is a flush out there. I call having 10 outs, button agonizes and folds.

The river is a 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. The SB bets out. I have $30 left. I am SURE he has a flush b/c of the way he plays.

1. Do I save them to buy a bottle of JW to drink my brains out when I get home or put them in the post b/c it doesn't matter at this point?

2. My bankroll is still healthy. Do I stay down until start winning or play my regular limits after taking a break? Do I change the game for a couple of sessions (1-2 NL, Omaha, Stud, etc)? Any suggestions welcome

[piggity]

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The villain is one of the wannabes in SB. I limp in MP w/8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] after 2 limpers. H/J limps and button raises. Blinds and limpers call to me. I would normally 3 bet 7-handed but just call b/c of the way I run.

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Firstly, I think just calling the raise here is fine. But more importantly, you should not base any of your decisions on "how you run," because of course that concept is flawed. There is only "how you have been running," which describes the past and is unrelated to how you will run going forward.

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The river is a 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. The SB bets out. I have $30 left. I am SURE he has a flush b/c of the way he plays.

1. Do I save them to buy a bottle of JW to drink my brains out when I get home or put them in the post b/c it doesn't matter at this point?


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On the river, when closing the action and deciding between call and fold, you are faced with a basic math question. The pot is laying you 19:1 at this point. So the key question is, when you say you are SURE, how sure are you? If you are 95%+ sure, then fold. But could QT be in his range? What about T8s? A busted gutshot with a big spade? An overplayed KK/AA/AQ? Obviously if you call, you will lose a vast majority of the time. But if you think you will win one out of 20 times that you call, then call.

[cgrohman]

Umm, I would normally raise 88 after 2 limpers, especially if I expected this to lead to folds behind me. Despite the number of players, I dont like to limp-3bet small or medium pairs. You need to lead the flop and hope that a raise either drives out or charges the max to draws. As played, once you get 3 bet you need to cap for value. I think you have to call this river.

[andyfox]

If you're really thinking you should save the $30 because you need to drink your brains out because you've been running bad, you should not move down in stakes. You should not play at all. I'm assuming you wrote a lot of this for comedic and cathartic effect, but look what's in your post:

"This is NOT a bad beat story."

"I need to explain my state."

"I am basically just trying to find out how much abuse can I take."

"I would normally 3 bet 7-handed but just call b/c of the way I run."

"I decide to c/r the field which is a terrible play"

"I don't notice that though b/c at this point I am playing terrible, playing 24 hours of the last 48"

If I posted these things, what advice would you give me? I would hope you would tell me to take two weeks off, to go do things other than poker that give me pleasure, and then, to come back refreshed and confident, ready to play well each and every hand, the results will be the results, win, lose or draw.

As for the specific hand, call $20. That will still leave you $10 if you lose. Do not use the $10 for JW; instead, go to your local homeless shelter and give the money to the people there. Then think about how lucky you are to have enough money to play poker and to have a computer on which to post a woe-is-me story.

This, too, shall pass my friend.

[Captain R]

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If I posted these things, what advice would you give me? I would hope you would tell me to take two weeks off

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I agree with Andy, whether you call or fold here isn't the point. The point is you should take at least a few days off from poker, read some basic poker books (I like to read Internet Texas HE when I'm running bad), enjoy life, and relax. Playing bad makes running bad even worse. I'm guessing you made a bunch of other mistakes that session that you wouldn't normally make either.

Good luck.

[pohuist]

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If I posted these things, what advice would you give me? I would hope you would tell me to take two weeks off

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I agree with Andy, whether you call or fold here isn't the point. The point is you should take at least a few days off from poker, read some basic poker books (I like to read Internet Texas HE when I'm running bad), enjoy life, and relax. Playing bad makes running bad even worse. I'm guessing you made a bunch of other mistakes that session that you wouldn't normally make either.

Good luck.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I think about luck I tend to think how lucky I am to be well ahead for the year even with all the losing streaks. All the basic books have been read and re-read many times. When running bad I like to relax with the Zen of Poker or Dao of Poker by Larry Phillips considering them the best books on psychology.

Thanks, guys, I am currently considering coming back next week and am not yet sure what should I do. Your advice does help. Nobody, though picked up on the more important (to me) question -- should I stay down and/or change the game for a while or just basic R&R would do. At what point "normal" losing streak ends and "being outplayed" begins. When I decide that I am being outplayed even if that wasn't a case before and move down trying to analyse and understand what leaks have opened up that were not there before?

[KitCloudkicker]

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At what point "normal" losing streak ends and "being outplayed" begins.

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imo if you are ever asking this question in a 10/20 borg game you are either thinking too much, on tilt, or need to switch tables.

[StrictlyStrategy]

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At what point "normal" losing streak ends and "being outplayed" begins.

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imo if you are ever asking this question in a 10/20 borg game you are either thinking too much, on tilt.

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