AK v two donks Line check please - Page 2

Fantam · #11 10-30-2007, 08:06 PM

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Even if all this is true, you don't need 50% equity to make an equity cap multiway.

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Agreed, but I would like some more evidence (maths or data is fine), before auto capping pf with AKo.

You have good equity in a multiway pot against TT-QQ (even 99) pf 3-betters, but you are in deep trouble against AA & KK.

Fantam · #12 10-30-2007, 08:15 PM

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... and many do not. And this is not a "solid" range. 3-betting with AJs or 99 is a good play more often than not.

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I can understand 3-betting against a late position pf raiser with AJs or 99, and perhaps also against a middle position pf raiser. This is assuming that you knew that the pf raiser loosened their pf raising requirements with position.

However, I would not be comfortable with 3-betting an UTG pf raiser with AJs or 99, unless I knew that they were a very loose pf raiser.

tiltaholic · #13 10-30-2007, 08:20 PM

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Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.25/$0.5
10 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, Hero raises, 4 folds, CO 3-bets, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (12.4SB, 4 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, CO raises, Button folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls, CO caps, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (12.2BB, 3 players)
BB bets, Hero folds, CO calls all-in $0.15.
Uncalled bets: 0.7BB returned to BB.

River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (12.8BB, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: 12.8BB)

Results:
Final pot: 12.8BB

Both players were terrible calling raises with 82 and the like.Once I'd already called one flop bet I felt priced in to see the turn,does anyone think I should I should have ignored my read and let it go earlier?

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cap pf, and if your read on BB is correct, then you likely have enough outs to call the turn bet.

Blzdwrath · #14 10-30-2007, 10:38 PM

I believe capping pre-flop with AK has a lot to do with implied odds when your TPTK holds up and weaker pairs/kickers pay you off.

scpi10 · #15 10-31-2007, 12:37 AM

grunch

Fold the flop after it gets 3 bet. Even though CO is stacking off, calling 2 back to you with just overs is bad.

londomollari · #16 10-31-2007, 01:31 AM

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I believe capping pre-flop with AK has a lot to do with implied odds when your TPTK holds up and weaker pairs/kickers pay you off.

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Your implied odds are lowered by capping preflop. You cap preflop because you've got a decent equity edge against your opponents ranges.
Here I'd prefer to call because you have great relative position and our equity edge isn't going to be huge unless CO is a maniac. I think we can make up for .1bb-.2bb of lost ev by check-raising the field of favourable flops.

maverickai · #17 10-31-2007, 02:06 AM

grunch... I would not call the 2 bets to me on the flop. You mentioned they habitually called raises with lousy cards. But on the flop, both are showing too much aggression for comfort.

And yes, given they are so loose, capping on flop would be good for value.

calidris · #18 10-31-2007, 02:31 AM

Flop call is marginal in my book. 3 outs, donked before you and 3-bettor yet to act. I'm not saying it's always a fold but it's something to take into consideration since you often have to pay 2 bets here.

Mitke · #19 10-31-2007, 06:10 AM

* grunch *

Cap preflop.

As played, on the flop, once it's two back and CO still there waiting we have to assume we are behind, we don't have many outs and some of them might already be in the villains' hands. Fold once it's two back.

Wait - the CO is short stacked. That could mean his hand is even worse than usual and that he's willing to play over-aggro to try to win the pot by bluffs. Maybe not enough to continue to turn though.

As played, I'd call the turn when the pot gets this big.

TimovieMan · #20 10-31-2007, 10:28 AM

I'd play the same way pf and also the first call on the flop, but facing two additional bets on the flop I need a better hand to continue. I'd let it go then...

Edit: concerning the capping vs. calling the 3-bet PF with AKo, I personally wouldn't cap with AKo. Past experience taught me AKo is not THAT good a hand. Simply making TPTK and having it hold up. And it's easily overplayed.
It's even my single most expensive hand in the last 20K+ I've played. Overplaying AKo might be a leak of mine.
But it also explains my reluctance to cap with it... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]