Passing a sobriety test

[ItalianFX]

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Can you refuse a PBT? This site I'm getting the info from is a DUI lawyer in Penn. so I think its all legit but it may be off. It says:

In Pennsylvania, all drivers in the Commonwealth are deemed to have consented to a blood alcohol content (BAC) test when police have reasonable grounds to believe the driver was operating his/her vehicle under the influence of an intoxicating liquor. Com v. Stair, 548 Pa. 596, 699 A.2d 1250 (1997). Miranda warnings are not required in order to admit results of chemical tests, or a defendant’s refusal to take such tests, in a prosecution for driving while intoxicated. However, in Pennsylvania, the police must first advise a suspect that they do not have the right to remain silent and that a refusal to take a chemical test will result in an administrative license suspension. This is called an O’Connell warning and it must precede any testing request by police.

Probable cause is a higher standard for police to meet in showing a court of law that they had the requisite knowledge about the occurrence of some criminality before the stop of a vehicle. The police must show that they possessed some reasonably trustworthy information that would lead a reasonably prudent person to believe that a crime has occurred. Whereas, a reasonable suspicion is a less demanding standard for the police to meet. It is more than mere suspicion or an educated “hunch.”



Therefore, if they have a 'hunch' that you've been drinking they can give you a test, and since you have agreed to the consent laws by driving then refusal would result in administrative penalties? Or am I reading this all wrong?

I reread your post and I think you're saying that you can refuse the PBT but then they'll just take you to the station and you'll for sure have to take that one, or face the penalties, is that what you're saying? lol :P

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You DO have the right to refuse the PBT, but if you are asked to submit to a BAC test, you have the right to refuse, but it is considered a refusal. If you read the above again about the O'Connell warnings, it explains everything exactly the way it is.

[Klompy]

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I reread your post and I think you're saying that you can refuse the PBT but then they'll just take you to the station and you'll for sure have to take that one, or face the penalties, is that what you're saying? lol :P



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That's what I was saying, it might be different from state to state though. I'm pretty sure in IA refusing to take the portable breathalyzer doesn't do anything, but refusing to take either a blood/breath/urine test at the station can make you lose your license.

There would be times when you'd actualy want to refuse the test at the station too, such as if you're going to blow over .15 because the law gets harsher on people who are more intoxicated.

[rjoefish]

I see, I was thinking PBT and BAC tests were the same thing.

[tshort]

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Just think of all the grammar lessons ten grand would have bought.



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tuq, thanks for holding OOT to a high standard of proper grammar and spelling.

[tuq]

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Just think of all the grammar lessons ten grand would have bought.



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tuq, thanks for holding OOT to a high standard of proper grammar and spelling.

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You're probably joking, but you did edit your original subject line after my initial post, so even if you're hating, you're welcome. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[ItalianFX]

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I got a DWI in march and there went my whole poker bankroll Never ever drink and drive it costed me over 10 grand it is just not worth it

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Just think of all the grammar lessons ten grand would have bought.

ItalianFX, serious question: you know how punitive a DUI/DWI is these days, would you let someone off the hook who you thought was "close", or do you go out of your way to test someone who is "close"? Curious about this. Thx.

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I base it all on their driving before the stop. I have stopped someone because our Control Center came back with a "No Record Found" on the license plate, and it turned out the person I stopped was drinking. They had beer in the back seat, however, their driving was fine and I didn't stop them for that. I let them go without even considering to test them.

One other DUI stop I have been on, the car was all over the road, which there was no way the other officer was going to let him go.

I have only arrested one person for DUI so I really don't know what I would do. It really depends on what you mean by "close."

[ItalianFX]

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I see, I was thinking PBT and BAC tests were the same thing.

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No. PBT is a small device that you blow into a tube.

BAC is blood/breathe/urine, which in my area we do all blood work. We take them to the hospital, and we're in and out within 10 minutes or less.

[ItalianFX]

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There would be times when you'd actualy want to refuse the test at the station too, such as if you're going to blow over .15 because the law gets harsher on people who are more intoxicated.

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If it is your first DUI, you'd probably get ARD anyways. ARD = Accelerated Rehabilitative Disposition. Everyone makes mistakes one time and the law is designed to accomodate for that. The 2nd and successive DUI's are where the law starts to come into play.

I don't think it is ever better to refuse the test because of the loss of license, bigger fines, etc.

[Klompy]

Italianfx,

This could be the case, this is kinda the area i'm not really sure about. I thought it was a lot harder to get deferred judgement if you have blown high numbers instead of refusing to blow. I could be wrong on this though.

[ItalianFX]

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Italianfx,

This could be the case, this is kinda the area i'm not really sure about. I thought it was a lot harder to get deferred judgement if you have blown high numbers instead of refusing to blow. I could be wrong on this though.

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I don't really think it matters what the numbers are when it comes to your first DUI. I guess every case is situationally dependant.

I know for sure that before I started working, I was on a ride along and we got into a chase, and the officer arrested the kid for fleeing/eluding, DUI, and stop sign violations and the District Attorny dropped the fleeing/eluding and got the kid ARD since it was his first DUI. If he would have went through with the fleeing/eluding charges, he wouldn't have been eligible for ARD. The officer agreed to drop the fleeing/eluding charges also.