And the winner is.....??

[Taso]

Smallfry, you're trying to debate something that isn't debateable.

My response to your post was correct. There's no doubt here, its just correct. It's like 2+2 = 4. It can't be debated.

[Small Fry]

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Congrats on becoming a mod Larry. Wow, that must have happened in the last half hour or I'm losing my mind.

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My congrats also. Larry's a Mod and Pfapfap has acheived pooh bah status. No wonder the stock market has been going bonkers lately.....lol.. well done guys.

[Taso]

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Congrats on becoming a mod Larry. Wow, that must have happened in the last half hour or I'm losing my mind.

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Weird enough, a week ago I was reading one of his posts (I'd always assumed he was a mod) and then I saw his name wasn't green and I was shocked. So its about time Larry, congrats.

[Rottersod]

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Not really. You need to define "tosses his hand away." Did he do it face up? Face down?

Face up, whoever has the best hand wins.

Face down, Player B wins.

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How is this for a definition: Muck, according to Robert's rules is "to discard ones hand" . To "discard" means "to throw away or get rid of". So we have Muck meaning to throw away or to get rid of ones hand. No mention of the position of the cards or where they're thrown.

So we have a situation where it is Player A's turn to act. He has been called and now, as first to act, he can either show his hand or he can muck it. By the defininition above, by tossing his hand into the middle of the table, or away, he has elected to muck.

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SF, you are really being a nit. If you were to ever try this at a casino you'd have the entire table laughing at you. I suggest you re-think your definitions in light of reality.

[PantsOnFire]

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Not really. You need to define "tosses his hand away." Did he do it face up? Face down?

Face up, whoever has the best hand wins.

Face down, Player B wins.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is this for a definition: Muck, according to Robert's rules is "to discard ones hand" . To "discard" means "to throw away or get rid of". So we have Muck meaning to throw away or to get rid of ones hand. No mention of the position of the cards or where they're thrown.

So we have a situation where it is Player A's turn to act. He has been called and now, as first to act, he can either show his hand or he can muck it. By the defininition above, by tossing his hand into the middle of the table, or away, he has elected to muck.

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I was at the Venetian in a tournament a while back. It was heads up on the turn. I moved in with air against an opponent I knew would fold unless she had one particular hand. Well she called and had that hand and I tossed my cards face up and they landed on the muck. Villain tried to scoop the pot but the dealer pulled my cards off the muck and dealt the river which gave me an inside straight that I didn't even consider. Villain called the floor over and the floor ruled in my favour saying my hand was still live because it was tabled.

And dat's da truth.

[Small Fry]

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Not really. You need to define "tosses his hand away." Did he do it face up? Face down?

Face up, whoever has the best hand wins.

Face down, Player B wins.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is this for a definition: Muck, according to Robert's rules is "to discard ones hand" . To "discard" means "to throw away or get rid of". So we have Muck meaning to throw away or to get rid of ones hand. No mention of the position of the cards or where they're thrown.

So we have a situation where it is Player A's turn to act. He has been called and now, as first to act, he can either show his hand or he can muck it. By the defininition above, by tossing his hand into the middle of the table, or away, he has elected to muck.

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I was at the Venetian in a tournament a while back. It was heads up on the turn. I moved in with air against an opponent I knew would fold unless she had one particular hand. Well she called and had that hand and I tossed my cards face up and they landed on the muck. Villain tried to scoop the pot but the dealer pulled my cards off the muck and dealt the river which gave me an inside straight that I didn't even consider. Villain called the floor over and the floor ruled in my favour saying my hand was still live because it was tabled.

And dat's da truth.

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And I believe you. But, I started this thread because I wanted to discuss the specifics of a cash game.

I assume by moved in you mean that you're all in. Tournament rules are different than cash game rules. In a tournament a player who is all in cannot fold. So even if your cards landed face down on the muck pile they should be retrieved and turned face up. An all in player necessitates a showdown.

[pfapfap]

[ QUOTE ]
How is this for a definition: Muck, according to Robert's rules is "to discard ones hand" . To "discard" means "to throw away or get rid of". So we have Muck meaning to throw away or to get rid of ones hand. No mention of the position of the cards or where they're thrown.

So we have a situation where it is Player A's turn to act. He has been called and now, as first to act, he can either show his hand or he can muck it. By the definition above, by tossing his hand into the middle of the table, or away, he has elected to muck.

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I dunno why you're so obsessed over this. Did a ruling not go your way somewhere? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

In the case where intention is unclear, it's a simple matter to ask. It's easy and in the spirit of the game and ensures the proper person wins the pot. Why are you still trying to hammer this out? You're adding definitions and interpretations to guidelines when the easiest and safest solution is simply to request clarification from the players. Rules are meant to protect, not punish.

[DavidSRT]

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Not really. You need to define "tosses his hand away." Did he do it face up? Face down?

Face up, whoever has the best hand wins.

Face down, Player B wins.

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QFT

[PantsOnFire]

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Cash game.
On the river.
Player A bets.
Player B calls.
Player A says, "Nice call" and tosses his hand away.

And the winner is.....


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Cards face down --> B
Cards face up --> best hand