couple of oop big pair hands

[MrVengeance]

how do i deal with aggression on drawy boards with big pairs oop? should i be raising more preflop? on the flop should i be pushing/calling/or folding in these spots?

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.50/$1 Blinds - 8 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $82.95
BB: $39.15
UTG: $104.50
UTG+1: $62.10
Hero (MP1): $100.00
MP2: $85.75
CO: $109.50
BTN: $127.05

Preflop: Hero is dealt K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (8 Players)
2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $3.00</font>, MP2 folds, CO calls $3.00, 3 folds

Flop: ($7.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $6.00</font>, <font color="red">CO raises to $25.50</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises all-in to $97.00</font>, CO calls $71.50

Turn: ($201.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 All-In)

River: ($201.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 All-In)

Pot Size: $201.50 ($3 Rake)


Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.50/$1 Blinds - 9 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $105.35
BB: $86.50
UTG: $65.80
UTG+1: $181.35
Hero (MP1): $100.00
MP2: $179.35
MP3: $130.10
CO: $100.00
BTN: $78.55

CO posts $1.00
Preflop: Hero is dealt Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (9 Players)
2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $4.00</font>, 2 folds, CO calls $3.00, BTN folds, SB calls $3.50, BB folds

Flop: ($13) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $9.00</font>, <font color="red">CO raises to $24.00</font>, SB folds, <font color="red">Hero raises all-in to $96.00</font>, CO calls all-in for $72.00

Turn: ($205) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players - 2 All-In)

River: ($205) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players - 2 All-In)

Pot Size: $205.00 ($3 Rake)

[Ctrl.Dominate]

I think the way you played these hands is break even at best. You are coinflipping against nut flush draws and almost dead against sets. These spots are very player dependent.

[RyanCMU]

I play them both the same...

[MrVengeance]

they arent actually mine, I play .25 .50 currently. They are a friends and I wanted to see what others thought since he asked me and i was unsure of the answer I gave him.

[canvasbck]

This is the type of play with overpairs that makes set mining profitable. If I can call $3 to get $97 from you I can comfortably call with draw type hands (JT, small PP) and make money. Giving villains implied odds was a leak that killed me for a long time. My initial bets were big enough to deny expressed odds, then I would pay off when they hit thereby making it profitable for them to chase.

[MrVengeance]

yeah, i agree. given how its played both are a fold on the flop i think.

[canvasbck]

I actually will call here quite a bit folding these spots too often is a little weak tight. I will fold it with a good read, but often wait for a second or even third barrel before I let it go. I think this is one of those situations that is very read dependant and needs to be mixed up a lot to avoid being exploitable. My LEAST favorite move this deep is shoving though.

Edit, I could easily see folding either hand with the flop action. Hand 1 you could call the flop then c/f turn since every draw got there.

[MrVengeance]

in one hand he was ahead when the money went in 55% 45%, and coinflip in the other.

[MrVengeance]

ah yeah the shoving was what i was questioning, doesnt seem to get the max value from weaker hands. you like a call on both hands on the flop?

[canvasbck]

It's not that I really LIKE a call in either hand, but these type situations have to be called occasionally when you can find a villain who will play TPTK this way. Otherwise, you get bullied WAY too much.

Fold&gt;call&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; shove