2/4 blind defense two pair hand at Commerce

[J.A.Sucker]

mike,

I hear what you're saying and know the type of players, even though I don't know the player in question. With all that said, the less likely it is for her to have 33, then the more likely you're toast, which means just calling the hand down is fine.

The problem with many high stakes hands is they get played in a certain fashion for reasons that are difficult to articulate. Further, many folks will never even think about those things properly even with the information made available to them.

FWIW, I think she sounds like a tricky player.

Best,

The Sucker.

[Abbaddabba]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll add a bit to the hand but I don't really think it matters. I called, river was another 8, giving me a boat, I check/called. We can all agree the river changed nothing?


[/ QUOTE ]

If she had a lone K or AA, she missed her 8 outter.

88 is eliminated from her range, and you're now beating 66 or 33.


I think that it changes from a bet/fold or check/call into a bet/call, if you think it's at all likely she checks behind with AA or AK.

[SA125]

[ QUOTE ]
this hand is a great example of the sort of confusing situations that can come up against commerce regulars, and it's very hard for hero to expect any sort of real help from this forum. the only people who might have some sort of idea of what's going on are the people whve logged some hours against her. and even then it's a tough call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said. I don't want to say the majority of posts, but I think that applies to a lot of them. Especially live ones like you said where the reads can be so solid. But then you come back to if your read is so solid, why post at all?

The best thing about a post is the lesson of the play. Which I don't think should always have to be posed as a problem/question. "Here's what happened, what do you think?" is good too.

[DeathDonkey]

This thread turned out good. I check/called the river, she bet it with such confidence I was sure I was beat. She showed AK. I was embarrassed to show my hand. Oops.

-DeathDonkey

[Lestat]

I wouldn't c/r the river, but you can bet and call another raise. If I weren't willing to lose two more on the river here, I wouldn't have called the 4th bet on the turn.

Not saying I'd never call down a 4-bet on 4th street, but not here. Not with 86. And not when I'm so concerned about KK, that I can't even bet after improving.

[OneMoreYouth]

having only read the first 2 pages i'm going to put her on AK here and check/raise the river. or bet/call the river. assuming that her raise pre-flop wasnt extremely quick, and that her raises post-flop were very quick i would assume she's put you on a lesser king as somebody else stated.

[i3betwidposition]

I would have put her on AA since she just called ur raise and 4 betted on the turn but since you said she was tilting I would go with AK or 45 (open ender)

[johnnyrocket]

i dont like check raising the river, check/call. The pot is real large and you could be in bad shape.

[veganmav]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
5-betting the turn and folding for a 6th is better than any plan involving checkraising the river

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for some sanity! This is obvious to me too just on basic poker theory.

I'll add a bit to the hand but I don't really think it matters. I called, river was another 8, giving me a boat, I check/called. We can all agree the river changed nothing?

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

can you explain this please?

[Shandrax]

Funny, I don't even defend 8-6s against a raise from EP.