AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT

[ikestoys]

I'd really like to have a ballpark figure for the amount of money stolen from all this. The tournament numbers are pretty easy to run, its just the total buy in. The cash games figures are a lot harder to find obv, but I'd like to start a tally.

Send me who you lost money to and how much, I'll start compiling the numbers

[TookURCookie]

http://www.photoshelter.com/img-show/I0000Z1YU1CQWO0I

is this the Grand Chief Joe Norton?

[Flip-Flop]

Nice year for online poker:

- The usual collusion paranoia.
- Bots
- Idiots playing multi accounts.
- Superuser [censored] that can see your cards.

Awesome.
Here`s my prediction for the future:

No mater wtf happens with AP and no mater what site you decide to play on in the future....every time someone calls your big river bluff a voice in the back of your mind will remind you that there is a reasonable chance that the dude can see your cards.

So... for some is welcome paranoia and endless data mining followed by wasted hours and hours of analyzing in order to prove something that maybe isn`t there.

For others (like me) is bye-bye online poker.
Enough is enough.

[basementproject]

[ QUOTE ]
For others (like me) is bye-bye online poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Peace!

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
Nat - Stop lobbying to be a mod please, it's the best way to ensure it won't happen. Also, you've done an amazing job.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty much kidding about being a mod. I don't have the time to devote to actually modding anything. Sounds like more of a nightmare than anything else. Literally the one reason I would do it is to be able to read the mod forum.

[Xibalba]

So, basically this was a Wire season.
First 3 eps, we learn the case.
Next 8, it's investigated.
Next 2, it seems as though we're getting a happy ending.
Season finale, a reminder of how the world is a gargantuan pos but at least one or two of the bad guys will be punished, or mildly inconvenienced at the least.

Regardless, I wonder. Should this stop here? What I mean is, the "good" that has come from this is enough to not risk anymore by pushing the issue further? Or should the hounds salivating the destruction of AP be satisfied?

I seriously doubt AP will resurface as a completely clean company, proved (or, more accurately, insinuated) by how they don't want to prosecute because of the dirt the perpetrators may have on them. Playing there is out of the question for most of the people informed on the situation. But, does this "finale" ensure (or minimize as much as possible) the likelyhood of this happening again?

[bronx bomber]

with that graph in your avatar maybe AP owes you some money too Flip Flop. but it is obvious you made a wise decision.

[goofyballer]

fwiw, someone in the last thread posted a link to a pretty crappy and one-sided blurb in the SJ Mercury News which basically said "yeah, this proves it isn't safe." I e-mailed the writer about it:

[ QUOTE ]
Hi John,

I wish I could be writing to commend a wonderful piece of objective investigative reporting on your part, but sadly your recent article "Up their digital sleeve" featured none of those qualities. Given the number of Americans that still play the game despite the legislation banning it a year ago, online poker clearly isn't going anywhere. If anything, the current scandal with Absolute Poker indicates that online poker should be legalized and regulated to keep it safe for American customers and ensure that this type of thing doesn't happen again. The real crime here is that because of the current legal state of online poker in the U.S., the perpetrators of this cheating (American citizens) will go unpunished by our legal system. It also should be noted that nothing like this has ever happened with PokerStars or Full Tilt Poker, the two largest poker sites still serving U.S. players; readers of your article not familiar with the industry probably now believe that cheating is rampant across all sites. I hope you do a better job of educating yourself on your subject matter and of keeping some semblance of objectivity in your writing in the future.

I'm a software engineer who started playing poker three years ago in college and have been a consistent winner since then. I've also never been worried about being cheated in an online poker game, and my results clearly show I don't have reason to. This may be a surprise to all the losing players out there, but seriously: it's not rigged.

Sincerely,
goofy [censored] baller

[/ QUOTE ]

He replied:

[ QUOTE ]
Hey goofy [censored] baller -- I think you're saying "nothing like this has ever happened with PokerStars or Full Tilt Poker" when you should be saying "PokerStars and Full Tilt Poker have never been caught doing anything like this" because, really, how do you know? Put in current sports terms, there are a whole lot of guys right now saying they never took steroids, but have they really never taken steroids or have they just never been caught?

Thanks for the letter, though. I would like to keep it for consideration in "The Fans Speak Out" next Sunday. May I?

[/ QUOTE ]

I responded back:

[ QUOTE ]
I guess it's possible something has happened, but given these two companies' track records so far I'm inclined to believe it hasn't. PokerStars' room was run for a long time by Lee Jones, author of the book "Winning Low Limit Hold'em" (which I bought with the first $20 I made playing online poker and was instrumental in helping me get on the right track towards being a winning player) and a very public figure in the poker world who has been quite open in communicating with customers through the 2+2 forums online. Just weeks ago the winner of the PokerStars WCOOP (World Championship of Online Poker) main event was disqualified for multi-accounting and stripped of his winnings ($1.2 million), with the money redistributed to the other players in the tournament. A couple years ago when notable online tournament player ZeeJustin was caught playing multiple accounts at the same time in the same tournament on PartyPoker, PokerStars banned him as well. Full Tilt had problems with alleged bots playing on their site, and while I didn't follow that story as closely I believe that multiple players were banned from the site after an investigation. So while we don't have any proof that cheating hasn't occurred at PokerStars and Full Tilt, their responses to previous incidents at their sites seems to indicate that they take security issues and the integrity of their games quite seriously. Absolute Poker did not have this same kind of history before the cheating that occurred a month ago.

The statement they released today is unfortunately a rehash of all their hollow apologetic statements up to this point. It's sad that a lot of people worked very hard and risked a lot (e.g. Absolute employees coming forward) to expose this, only to be told "yeah, sorry about that, here's your money back, won't happen again!" If online poker were legalized and regulated, then a site would face SERIOUS repercussions from the U.S. government for this kind of security breach which would likely motivate them to prevent these instances from happening in the first place. Absolute would either face fines in the many millions of dollars or possibly even have their license revoked, and top execs would likely face jail time. Instead, their execs are probably getting away with a slap on the wrist and going back to their yachts off the coast of Panama. That's a huge injustice.

And yeah, feel free to use my letter.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he does print the letter hopefully it would put some more positive spin on this.

[h11]

Quote - The KGC was set up by Norton. It did nothing while players were cheated.

One of the detectives here called the KGC and reported that he was pleasantly surprised by how seriously they seemed to take his report of cheating. He said they not only asked many questions but asked the RIGHT questions. Soon after that the KGC ordered an independent investigation.

I am not aware of a single instance of misbehavior attributed to the KGC other than they permit gambling on their reservation, contrary to the view of the government of Canada. The Kahwanake point out that they are an independent nation, pursuant to an agreement with the French surrounding them in the seventeenth century, and can permit or not permit gambling on their own land, no matter what Canada thinks about it.

[TonyRoflmao]

No, this is Joe Tokwiro Norton:



I think the person you linked to may be involved though, as he knows Scott Tom:



Somebody from Blast Off Ltd. perhaps? I could be way off base, but I think he looks similar to this alleged* part owner in Blast Off:



* Allegation comes from two message board threads so take it with a grain of salt.
http://www.internettexasholdem.com/p....html?start=15
http://www.pokeraffiliateworld.com/forum...ow-owns-ub.html