$575 all in on turn...do i call?

[manku]

Home game, second to last hand of night. I have a tight image. 5-10 blinds, 500 initial buy in, with 500 add ons. NL, not PL, dealers choice. mostly hilo. anyway, this high only omaha hand comes up.

I have about 1500 in chips in SB, up 500 for night. Only 5 players left at game.

all players limp to button/dealer, who raises to 50. This guy is borderline maniac and stuck close to 5K for night.

I look down, see 3-4-5-6, double suited. Not great, but playable...especially with only two hands remaining. All other players call.

Flop. 3-5-K, rainbow. I flop bottom two, and straight (no wrapper, though).

Checked to dealer who fires in $200. I call. (Question...should I have bet out, check raised or folded here. or is my call ok?)

All other players fold.

Turn: 9, putting a 4 flush out for me.

I check to button, who goes all in for 575.

I'm getting a little better than 2-1 on my money...I may be winning with two pair (he may have naked aces), I have 6 nut outs to my straight draw and a potential 7 more to my flush.
Plus 4 outs to my two pair give me maybe 17 (or am I counting twice?) total outs out of 44.

I call.

Unfortunately, he had me totally dominated: he had a k-3, for two higher pair, with the king high flush draw.

My guess is that I should have made a big bet on the flop, and this player (with my tight image) may have folded fearing a set.

I think my passive play cost me...I have trouble playing with wild, super aggressive players. Unless I have a monster, I never know where I stand. They will check raise with draws, bottom two etc...

Thoughts?

Manku

[wazz]

If he's a maniac, he's unlikely to be folding top and bottom pair on such a dry board. Reraise preflop and try to get it all-in on this flop. As played I think I generally outright shove the turn hoping for a fold but carrying plenty of outs even if behind, the check-call is an ok play if you think that he will happily get it all-in here with drawing and one pair hands, but generally you should try to make it easy for yourself by openshoving.

I think the flop is the worst mistake though. I hate check-call here, I either lead out and 3-bet all-in or check-raise. Which you do depends on your villain's postflop tendencies but if he is such a maniac I prefer the lead out as he is often raising your lead with air and can end the hand there and then by putting it all-in.

[wazz]

Oh, and in terms of help playing against wild LAGs..... join them at their own game!

[liquid]

With poor relative position to the raiser, I prefer leading the flop to check-calling. Given the ragged board, check-raising is not out of the question if you have both backdoor flush draws working for you. Only a MP player sandbagging the raiser with a set is going to have you in trouble.

As played the turn is a call. You have a good (though not great) 3-way hand, heads up, versus a player whose range includes a lot more than hands that have more than one of your 2pr/fd/sd crushed. You're not dominating much, but you have good equity versus his range.

If you're not comfortable with this situation, consider folding 3456ds PF as first to act after a LAG whom everyone else is likely targeting as well. You'll be hitting a lot of tough non-nut hands and draws.

[CrushinFelt]

I'm never getting away from this hand unless I have a read. Also, muscle-up on the flop and get some more money in there. (Lead, c/r, whatever, it probably wouldn't have made a difference).

[wazz]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're not comfortable with this situation, consider folding 3456ds PF as first to act after a LAG whom everyone else is likely targeting as well. You'll be hitting a lot of tough non-nut hands and draws.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is probably better advice than my advice to reraise.

[holdme]

I CRAI there, but it's tough because you have horrible position and 3 players left to act. So the flop call is okay. But betting out is probably better than c/c.

As played, on the turn, I would probably bet this type of hand into him since you're calling that bet unless he's betting draws or one pair a lot of the time.

[manku]

Agree with c/r on the flop...i think, with two hands to go, i was playing too defensive - didn't really want to go from up 500 to down 500 with one hand left...not good thinking, and frankly i should just not even look at my hands in that case, but nobody's perfect :^)

[Ellsworth T]

I don't agree with a c/r on the flop. I believe that the check raise on the flop is dangerous for a number of reasons.

1. No one may bet and two bad things can occur. You can turn the nuts and have everyone shut off with very little money in the pot, or the turn can come 7-A and you do not know the strength of your hand.

2. You go for a c/r but one of the tighter players leads out before the maniac bets, then your opponents have a better idea of your hand if you decide to call, and you also have difficulty assigning them a hand. Remember they have same information that you have, and may be betting wrap draw, same two pair, sets, air, what can you put them on after they bet before the maniac??

3. Your opponents have a real monster, check to the maniac who bets, and then you are check raising drawing to 8 outs.

For this reason I lead into the maniac 3/4ths pot, as then it looks pretty strong and only good hands will probably reraise and all others will probably call. Also, if the turn hits your straight with no flush cards, you can play it deceptively.

[boscoboy]

Not great, but playable...especially with only two hands remaining.


I find your belief system fascinating.