I have a question about poker

[DavidC]

Yeah, it's that post again.

I read this in its entirety for the first time yesterday. NH, Ed.

Anyways, this particular statement is kinda neat:

[ QUOTE ]
This post is for the people who don't understand why you should play A3s on the button after one weak limper.

[/ QUOTE ]

Firstly, neat.

Secondly, do you have to raise here, or can you limp along if the blinds are loose, passive, and they suck?

Just curious.

This is like the one scenario where being to the direct right of the loosies isn't too bad.

--Dave.

[MrWookie]

Depends. If the blinds are really loose, limping is fine. If they're tight, raise and knock them out.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
Depends. If the blinds are really loose, limping is fine. If they're tight, raise and knock them out.

[/ QUOTE ]

More thoughts:

Now, Miller says "One Weak Limper", iirc.

Now there's all kinds of weak. If it's weak as in is tight and will limp with good hands and fold frequently post-flop, and tends to check-call lots, then I'm more inclined to muck this (though I'll semi-frequently raise: I have 10%-12% pfr at some tables).

If the BB is a TAG, then this also becomes a muck, because he'll be in there with any playable hand, and he'll be hurting you (although your position helps).

Not sure where I'm going with this. If you're against a weak player who happens to be someone who's going tobe hammering you post flop with nothing (such that you will be calling to the river UI sometimes) then I'm not sure whether you should raise or not, to be honest (given tight blinds). On the one hand it makes your calldown more correct, but on the other hand is makes his bluffing more correct. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Finally, to be honest, against loose, bad players, it may be correct to raise this regardless, for value. It's fine line here, Sklansky might recommend calling to make their mistakes more punishing, and Miller might recommend raising for value, both of them would say "F U Party!" in regards to the rake (I have good lawyers, so I can say stuff like this). I'm not 100% sure of the math involved either: it's entirely possible that it would be for value to raise against random hands, but you would still not raise because you want hands like 63o to call in the SB (which will lead them into deeper -EV situations tahn just the initial +EV to everyone else when the SB folds.).

[Toe-Knee]

Well that's about the third time I've read that, and it finally clicked. Thanks so much for the repost, you helped at least one person out.

I'll add another question I have about preflop play that's kinda along these lines. In this post AJo top pair and flushdraw a lot of posters didn't like the preflop raise
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], CO posts $0.50.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP calls, MP+1 calls, 1 fold, CO checks <font color="red">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB folds, all the rest call.

[/ QUOTE ]

The main point bozlax said was [ QUOTE ]
March, this is precisely what I said. "Limp and make sure the blinds stay in." "I'd rather have AJo against few players or many players, not a middle pot." (Paraphrased)

[/ QUOTE ] because "pumping up the pot makes draws profitable and gives you reverse implied odds" outways the sacrifice of preflop equity.

So i got 2 Q's for 'yall

1. If AJo and similar hands don't play well multiway how could they possibly play well very multiway?

2. When would limping not be worth the sacrifice of preflop equity? In other words what hand do we have to raise here? I'm guessing AJo is the line and we would raise AQo, right?

Thanks,
Toe-Knee

[numeri]

Hi David,

Any of raising, folding, or calling can be correct here, IMO. I'd be comfortable folding vs. a very tight "weak" player. I'd also consider raising if the limpers range can be very wide and the blinds are tight. Typically, one or both blinds will call, and our equity edge against 3 other hands seems too thin for me to push.

In general, the ideal situation here would be a loose and predictable player limping who will put in lots of bets without the best hand. This can be a wide range of players, but in general, I'd like to know something about the limper and blinds before coming in. There are too many permutations of possible favorable situations to describe them all.

[DavidC]

Position.

If on the same preflop action as you described, I was in the BB, I don't raise. On the Button, I raise.

[DavidC]

For me, the line is ATo. ATo on the button and I limp in that spot, AJo and I raise. If the table is really passive (REALLY passive on the flop), then go ahead and raise ATo anyways, because it'd be nice to see a free turn card.

[bottomset]

I love that thread because very good players like Tosh and Kiddo seem fairly inexperienced, it gives me hope for the future

while there are situations where I wouldn't raise A3s OTB after a limper .. 90% of the time or more, its some donk I school postflop, so I raise

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
I love that thread because very good players like Tosh and Kiddo seem fairly inexperienced, it gives me hope for the future

while there are situations where I wouldn't raise A3s OTB after a limper .. 90% of the time or more, its some donk I school postflop, so I raise

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, but if you school him postflop, why raise now?

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
1. If AJo and similar hands don't play well multiway how could they possibly play well very multiway?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you flop a gutshot, would you rather be against 2 opponents or 6 opponents? 6, your impied odds are better. If you flop TPGK would you rather be against 2 opponents or 6? 2, less chance you'll get sucked-out on. Are you happier playing TPGK with AJ against 6 opponents, or a gutshot against 2? THAT'S your answer.

[ QUOTE ]
2. When would limping not be worth the sacrifice of preflop equity? In other words what hand do we have to raise here? I'm guessing AJo is the line and we would raise AQo, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

I might even say AJs...definitely AQs. Again, it's not a bright-line thing, but each player has their own comfort level.