Cheating at AP, updated cliff notes

[MyTurn2Raise]

[ QUOTE ]
You guys (and gals) are way off track here.

First, this scandal affects more (many more) people than just 2p2 members.

Second, The only logical course of action is to submit all the evidence that has been assembled to as many news (press) people as possible in the hopes that someone will pick it up and run with it.

So far, the story has made BIG NEWS in forums and blogs but is not yet in the main stream media. In order to force AP to come clean, there has to be intense public pressure. This will only come from CNN, 20/20, 60 minutes type of coverage.

AP has to be made accountable even if it means they go down in flames. The rest of the online poker world will then sit up and take notice and ensure this type of thing never happens again.

Duff is in way over his head, he has no authority to discuss a deal with AP except in relation to his own money. So far, he has only had one conversation with some middle management peon who was instructed by his bosses to see where things stood. When the time comes for serious deal making it won't be a customer service rep who makes the call.

For the good of the industry as a whole, this must not be allowed to die a quiet death.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you have far too much faith in investigative reporters

the best way to get the truth is if Absolute Poker opens up everything to some forensic accounting firm--like an earlier poster said, bring in PWC, KPMG, Ernst&Young, or Deloitte&Touche

get a real INDEPENDENT audit

[whangarei]

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Right now, the only way for AP to survive as a viable company is to get rid of the people involved in this, hire the .xls whistleblower back or give him a settlement (I personally am not doing a [censored] thing to stop leaning on them until that happens) and reassure their clientele. It doesn't have to be a splash on the login screen, but it sure as hell does have to be public in some manner.

Anything else at this point is sending the exact opposite signal to the poker community AND TO WASHINGTON, D.C. from the one we should all be sending. It's too late to take care of things the way that gamblers always have, privately. As of right now, AP's best bet to survive is to do it as a transparently operated room with more honesty and more accountability than anyone else in the business.

That, or nothing.

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[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] adanthar

[Guthrie]

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I told Roger that paying us back with the "chip dumping" excuse would probably satisfy a lot of people. I guess I was wrong. When he calls back, I'll have to back away from that stance. It's too bad, because I felt that was the best way for us to get both the money and an implied admission of guilt.

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Why back away from that stance? For the players who lost significant sums of money to the cheaters, job one should be getting that money back.

Nothing that any of those players say or do, or agree to, or agreements that they sign, can possibly stop the tsumani that's about to swamp AP.

[rakemeplz]

Wow. The whole idea of giving cheated players back money, for chipdumping COMPLETELY UNRELATED TO THEIR ACCOUNTS is in of itself preposterous and very underhanded way of resolving this that will never fly. Since they weren't involved in cheating or chipdumping hence their is absolutely no basis for them being returned money.

It's amazing that someone from absolute would even consider this solution, even ignoring the fact that poker players will continue to believe absolute is a rogue/cheating site.

[Chino Brown]

Dan Druff, this is a very special opportunity that you have to talk directly with AP. It is a difficult position to be in to speak for an entire community, but it is something you have to do since you are the only one with direct contact.

Your propositions for resolution in your phone convo were severely lacking, to say the least. The message you sent to them was that if they paid everyone their money back, this would all go away. Nevermind, that the poker community was bold-faced lied to or that they are blatantly covering up the fact that cheating occured on their software! Money can solve everything right? Well, not in this instance!! This is a very delciate situation that we are involved with right now. I mean think about it, this is the first time that there has ever been proof that cheating has occured on an online poker site!!! So if we send them the message now that throwing money at us solves the problem, what do you think will happen in the future if this situation occurs again? In fact, sending them the message that money heals all wounds is exactly what will make cheating MORE likely in the future!!! If they get caught, so what? Just refund the money and we'll act like it's all ok. That is most certainly not the case and is absolutely not the message we should be sending them. The way we react to this situation now will set the precedent for how we will be treated in the future should this situation be repeated. It must be absolutely clear to them that cheating and their attitude toward the incident so far, is absolutely unnaceptable! That the only way for them to get out of this situation is to admit full responsibility!

The funds need to be returned ASAP, they need to give us a full and satisfactory explanation of what happened, they need to go after all the guilty parties involved in this scandal and take whatever action that they can to prosecute them, they need to admit to there being some sort of superuser account and disclose the reason for its existence (since it has already pretty much been confirmed that all poker sites have the capabilities to view everyone's hole cards, presumably for security reasons), they need to reassure us that they are taking to necessary steps to make sure this situation never happens again, and last, but certainly not least, they must NEVER viloate our trust again!!!!

Only after they do all of that will we even consider forgiving them for they way they have handled the situation so far!

[whangarei]

[ QUOTE ]
As a Big4 auditor/consultant, i can tell you that we have software that in two minutes would be able to come to a conclusion within 99.95% accuracy.


[/ QUOTE ]

You must be in sales. That's a rediculous statement.

[Red_Diamond]

I'm not sold on the idea there was a WhistleBlower here.

In fact, there is very little to even suggest it.

[FoxInTheHenHouse]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You guys (and gals) are way off track here.

First, this scandal affects more (many more) people than just 2p2 members.

Second, The only logical course of action is to submit all the evidence that has been assembled to as many news (press) people as possible in the hopes that someone will pick it up and run with it.

So far, the story has made BIG NEWS in forums and blogs but is not yet in the main stream media. In order to force AP to come clean, there has to be intense public pressure. This will only come from CNN, 20/20, 60 minutes type of coverage.

AP has to be made accountable even if it means they go down in flames. The rest of the online poker world will then sit up and take notice and ensure this type of thing never happens again.

Duff is in way over his head, he has no authority to discuss a deal with AP except in relation to his own money. So far, he has only had one conversation with some middle management peon who was instructed by his bosses to see where things stood. When the time comes for serious deal making it won't be a customer service rep who makes the call.

For the good of the industry as a whole, this must not be allowed to die a quiet death.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you have far too much faith in investigative reporters

the best way to get the truth is if Absolute Poker opens up everything to some forensic accounting firm--like an earlier poster said, bring in PWC, KPMG, Ernst&Young, or Deloitte&Touche

get a real INDEPENDENT audit

[/ QUOTE ]

And how do you force AP to submit to the audit?
By subjecting them to unbearable scrutiny in the mainstream media! <font color="red"> </font>

[MyTurn2Raise]

ahhh...i see the bigger implications now foxinthehenhouse...yeah, it will likely take force to get Absolute to have a real audit

shame they don't want to do it themselves to save their reputation

[whangarei]

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btw as this account seems a few years, you are being incredibly naive if you think this is the only time it's been used for malpurpose. That is why they need to get an auditor in to discover the truth. They wont do that, and I hope they go down.

[/ QUOTE ]


very good point.

There could have been many situations which were less obvious but still profitable going on for who knows how long.
This is also why AP needs to come clean with practically everything. How long has it been happening? When did THEY discover it? What have they done to ensure it won't happen again?
etc etc etc.

Denying that it ever happened means they avoid a lot of other extremely important Q's.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT