Cheating at AP, updated cliff notes

[_Gabe_]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow....put me in the "Druff must have been bought off" camp

No way in hell do we settle with that as a solution.

AP- Your picking a dangerous spokeman for us....someone who has large(?) amounts of money to be conceviably gotten back. It is NOT those players who will be the downfall of your site if not tended too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Also, I don't know where the 700K figure is coming from but it quite easily be discovered that the amount of money that was stolen through these accounts (and possibly others) is much much larger. When I get home I'm going to start studying my AP hand histories at any stake 5/10 and above, I would recommend that others do the same.

[bugstud]

I think there's like 5 people in this thread that play or played the majority of their play @absolute recently in this thread. I fortunately didn't lose money to any of these accounts, but if I had I would be concerned with getting my money back. Then again, if the site goes under after this getting the money back is a moot point isn't it.

edit - druff's solution was one we talked about in aruba. Trying to come up with a way where absolute admitted wrongdoing and restitution w/o killing the site, that seemed like the only way. Much like the FT bot situation.

[runout_mick]

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, I can't believe Druff is getting all this flack for trying to find the a solution in which he is reimbursed. Given that AP will have a hard time recovering from this, period, it's not unreasonable for him to think that restitution with no admission is the best case scenario, and given the amount of "skin in the game" he has...

I'm just saying that it's pretty easy to take a stand on principle with someone else's money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

Priority 1 should be getting restitution to the players. Face it, AP is going to spin this however they please, regardless of what we want.

Ease up on DD.

[evazan]

Druff,

I understand what your saying but does AP have a choice to do what you suggested? At this point I think they will be investigated by outside parties who will find out what really happened and make it public for them.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
Uh... i'd have way more incentive to play there if they acknowledged it and detailed what they've done to prevent/take legal action vs the employees.

[/ QUOTE ]

-2 is greater than -7, I guess.

[nath]

I understand Dan's position of trying to get his money back, so I'm not giving him [censored] over that, even though I'd rather see Absolute come totally clean on this. The fact still remains that it's just completely implausible for Absolute to deny the existence of a "superuser" account at this point, even if all aggrieved parties agree to a settlement with them.

Obviously getting the money back is a huge step, but I think beyond that, for AP to have a shot, they need to come clean about the existence of the account and its purpose, and who abused it, especially if they were current or former high-level employees (as we're pretty sure they are), and cooperate in bringing them to justice.

[MicroBob]

BTW everyone - while there are plenty of 2+2'ers and others who know some of what's going on and it obviously affects their high-stakes games significantly, I think many of you over-estimate how well-known this whole scandal is.

I know a couple of recreational/occasional online players who would have zero clue about any of this stuff happening if I didn't tell them.
There are LOTS of poker players out there who never swing by 2+2 or other forums or barely breeze through occasionally.

Even if this stuff hits the mainstream media even more it's not like everyone who has ever played poker will suddenly notice it. I know recreational-players who didn't even know about the passing of the UIGEA.

Furthermore, there would be plenty of recreational-players who see such a story and not consider it news-worthy in the least because they already knew there was cheating going on...since all these sites rig their games anyway. That's what they think anyway.

In short, there is every chance that Absolute can survive okay just with all their advertising on TV and stuff like that.

[The Funky Llama]

I'm not accusing Dan of lying to us but it wouldn't surprise me if they did offer to buy him out.

[apefish]

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, I can't believe Druff is getting all this flack for trying to find the a solution in which he is reimbursed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seth- I think he's getting flack for the other part where he is basically telling them to let it die and not admit to anything and that's the likeliest way for them to survive.

If you look for example at the posts following his I think it's pretty apparent 1) he doesn't speak for many people and 2) it may simply not be true.

I would absolutely do what he could if I were him to get money back. But he's bargaining undeliverable goods imo.

[cassette]

Don't agree with Dan but I understand where he's coming from. Absolute had by far the best MSNL games on the net (not just US) plus they owe him a bunch of money.