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  #1  
Old 08-30-2007, 01:44 PM
nazahl nazahl is offline
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Default qq oop vs. solid tag - deep

villain is one of the better tags at this level from what i've seen.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="#C00000">Button ($109.75)</font>
SB ($68.60)
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($143.85)</font>
UTG ($77.75)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $1.75</font>, Button calls $1.75, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $8</font>, UTG folds, Button calls $5.75.

Flop: ($17.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($17.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $7</font>, Hero calls.

River: ($31.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="red"> Button bets $16 </font>, Hero [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] ????????

really questioning the flop play against this particular villain. being oop w/ a marginal hand against a tough opponent who uses position well and can read hands is a spot I try to avoid, esp. deep. it just feels like I set myself up to get outplayed on the later streets by not betting this flop.


Final Pot: $31.50
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  #2  
Old 08-30-2007, 01:49 PM
nexah3 nexah3 is offline
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Default Re: qq oop vs. solid tag - deep

Does your opponent generally trap? His check on the flop is kind of fishy. To me it seems like he's playing a pocket pair, maybe 10s, JJ, or even KK.
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  #3  
Old 08-30-2007, 02:36 PM
dnord dnord is offline
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Default Re: qq oop vs. solid tag - deep

Ace-whatever isn't obligated to bet this flop - he might be politely avoiding the c/r since you're deep and he's not sure about AQ / AJ. Turn bet makes me think he's thinking "gosh, a second ace, a draw just appeared, he's checked twice, I could bet less than half-pot and see what happens" with a lot of middle pocket pairs, any ace, or even something worse (but if he's good, it's not something else).

You showed weakness again on the turn and he looks like he's taking advantage of it. These look like "the largest bet your opponent will call" and not "the smallest bet your opponent will fold". Villain might be outplaying you or he might show you AJ/ATs, but I imagine he's as confused as you are right now.
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  #4  
Old 08-30-2007, 04:18 PM
Lego05 Lego05 is offline
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Default Re: qq oop vs. solid tag - deep

TT,JJ,AQ maybe. He played this pretty weird for being one of the better TAG's at this level.
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  #5  
Old 08-30-2007, 05:36 PM
nazahl nazahl is offline
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Default Re: qq oop vs. solid tag - deep

[ QUOTE ]
TT,JJ,AQ maybe. He played this pretty weird for being one of the better TAG's at this level.

[/ QUOTE ]

why? I could see myself playing AQ exactly like this, TT/JJ as well if I thought I could get KK or QQ to fold.
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  #6  
Old 08-30-2007, 08:05 PM
Lego05 Lego05 is offline
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Default Re: qq oop vs. solid tag - deep

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
TT,JJ,AQ maybe. He played this pretty weird for being one of the better TAG's at this level.

[/ QUOTE ]

why? I could see myself playing AQ exactly like this, TT/JJ as well if I thought I could get KK or QQ to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pre-flop Player A would raise and you one of the better TAG's would call with AQ/TT/JJ then Player C will reraise, player A will fold and you one of the better TAG's will call with AQ/JJ/TT??? This doesn't seem like a very good line to me at 50NL and I'd think one of the best TAG's at the level may take a better line.
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  #7  
Old 08-30-2007, 09:03 PM
mookboi mookboi is offline
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Default Re: qq oop vs. solid tag - deep

Given stacks, I don't wanna go far in this hand with 1 pair. I cbet/fold 11 on flop.

As played, river call is close I think, let's do it.
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  #8  
Old 08-30-2007, 09:25 PM
Coaster Coaster is offline
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Default Re: qq oop vs. solid tag - deep

I'd bet $12 on the flop and fold to any further aggression.
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  #9  
Old 08-30-2007, 09:28 PM
Daniel LeClaire Daniel LeClaire is offline
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Default Re: qq oop vs. solid tag - deep

Yeah, you butchered this hand pretty good. If you don't lead the flop at least lead the turn.

After just flat calling twice his most likely holding is a small pp. I don't see what A/x hands he could possibly have. AK maybe, but I'd think he would 3 bet.

On the river, if he's an okay player fold. If he's a really good player call.
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  #10  
Old 08-30-2007, 10:14 PM
shoxbb6 shoxbb6 is offline
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Default Re: qq oop vs. solid tag - deep

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, you butchered this hand pretty good. If you don't lead the flop at least lead the turn.

After just flat calling twice his most likely holding is a small pp. I don't see what A/x hands he could possibly have. AK maybe, but I'd think he would 3 bet.

On the river, if he's an okay player fold. If he's a really good player call.

[/ QUOTE ]
Flop is ridic standard, especially if we can get him to bluff after we check. Our hand has showdown value in this hand, and practically none of villains range will call a cbet on this flop.
Once you check the flop and the turn, I call the river all day long.
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