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  #1  
Old 07-31-2007, 02:20 PM
jstill jstill is offline
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Default Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I

start at the beginning I suppose, any experts wanna state they're ranges in each position assuming 100bb stacks for hero and all villans.

I raise all pairs obviously, AJ+ utg and fold the other broadways, then in the HJ all those KQ KJ QJ JT some J9s 98s T9s ect

CO ATo A9s I ll open

button any A and lots of crap, should it be ATC (I steal alot less in the CO or Button if one of the blinds has like 20-30bbs fwiw, thats good rite?)
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  #2  
Old 07-31-2007, 02:49 PM
Victor Victor is offline
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Default Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I

your hijack range is about my utg range.

hijack i would add 87s and sometimes lower.

co def add lower suited aces. i think i open a2s there. a5s in hijack. a8s utg.

i think at stakes 2-4 (sometimes 3-6) and lower you can get away with opening a ton of hands. in my limited experience at 5-10 ppl recognize youre lite and will resteal. plus ppl all overagg aholes anyway so you can punish them by being tighter.
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  #3  
Old 07-31-2007, 03:00 PM
jstill jstill is offline
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Default Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I

I used to open those broadway hands suited utg but read somewhere I shouldn't I forget where now.

I forgot to say I raise the Axs in the CO and like 54s ect but again I ll just fold those if one of the blinds has less than like 40bbs and calls alot or the BTN has less than 20bbs. Not sure if thats good to adjust that way vs opponent stack sizes? just what Ive been doing.

assume HJ opens a standard raise what do u 3bet with in the CO, Button or in the blinds, how much does the player matter?

what is ur guys squeezing ranges? say utg opens 4x, one cold caller, are u calling or squeezing with pairs below QQ? assume full stacks and u have postion aka aren't in the blinds. How about hands like AQo AJs ect ect ect...
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  #4  
Old 07-31-2007, 03:03 PM
4_2_it 4_2_it is offline
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Default Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I

I approach pre-flop a different way. I evaluate the following:
0) Stack Sizes
1) My position
2) Position of my opponents
3) Opponent tendencies
4) My cards
5) Action that occurred before it gets to me
6) Likely action should I raise or limp

You have to have a plan for each hand (thanks Matt and Sunny). Your cards make up an important part of your plan, but always blindly open raising hands like J9s from the CO or folding 87o from MP is probably not the best long term approach.

Now, I understand new players crave starting hand charts. The ones in Phil Gordon's Little Green Book are good.

edit -- I play mosylt 6-max or shorter
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  #5  
Old 08-01-2007, 02:49 PM
Surf Surf is offline
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Default Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I

[ QUOTE ]
I approach pre-flop a different way. I evaluate the following:
0) Stack Sizes
1) My position
2) Position of my opponents
3) Opponent tendencies
4) My cards
5) Action that occurred before it gets to me
6) Likely action should I raise or limp

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty much what runs through my head before I make a pf decision. Raising AJo utg can be a mistake in some (many?) games and a no brainer in others.


Some kind of nitty starting ranges that should keep you out of trouble:

utg: AJo+ (drop AJo if you get 3bet alot or you expect 3 or more callers semi-regularly)
A7s+
SCs 56s thru JTs
PPs 44+
KQs, KJs

HJ:
Add A5s+, some suited 2gappers, KTs, QJs

CO:
Add any suited Ace, any suited 2gapper, decent suited 3gappers (J7s),
33/22, ATo, KQo, KJo, KTo, QJo, unsuited connectors

Button:
Add unsuited 2gappers, random suited stuff and whatever you can get away with given the blinds' tendencies. Stay away from A2o-A9o though for now, they're RIO nightmares even with position.
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  #6  
Old 08-01-2007, 08:16 PM
sethypooh21 sethypooh21 is offline
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Default Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I

Phy,

It's likely that this forum will be primarily for those going to six max since the majority of limit play seems to be 6-max. So naturally, the majority of LHE players trying to learn NL are going to choose 6-max, because we don't have the patience to be anything but lagmonkeys at FR. (which means we should all go play donkaments, RAR...)
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  #7  
Old 07-31-2007, 03:15 PM
phydaux phydaux is offline
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Default Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I

Off suit broadway goes way down in value in NL. At NL you want to play much tighter in EP & MP than in limit.

Also, position is much more important in NL. So much so, that you almost never want to play from OOP after the flop if you can help it at all. Your pre-flop strategy should focus on never being OOP after the flop with out a monster hand. You almost never want to be OOP with a draw (I say "almost" because there MIGHT be an exception, but I honestly can't think of one).

These are my normal starting hand requiorments for FR NL cash games:

EP - Fold all SCs & suited aces. Limp any pair TT & below, but only if the table is mostly passive. If you expect a raise from MP, LP or Button, then fold preflop. If you limp and get a raise from those positions, then fold your pair. If the raise comes from the blinds you can call because you'll have position after the flop, but remember the Rule of 5 & 10, and effective stacks must be at least 80bb. Be prepaired to fold when you don't hit your set. Raise only with premium pairs JJ and up, and AK. Maybe AQ if the table is passive.

MP - Raise all pairs 99 & up. Limp with smaller pairs, SCs 65 and up & suited aces, but be prepaired to fold to a raise from LP or the button. Call raises with these hands from the blinds but remember what I said about the Rule of 5 & 10 and effective stack sizes.

LP - If it is limped to you, raise with any pair, any SC 65 & up, any suited ace. If it is folded to you, then raise with those cards plus any suited king, any suited one-away 75 & up, any ace-face, any suited face cards.

SB - Play the small blind as if it were UTG. Fold liberally, because it just sucks SO much to be OOP after the flop. If has been folded all the way around to you and the button folded as well, then raise with any pocket you might raise from the button, as well as any pocket with at least one jack or higher.

Also any time you are playing a cash game, you have AA or KK preflop and you have a chance to call a raise, don't. Re-raise at least the pot or a little more. If you are re-raised all-in, call. Don't look at your kings and start to second guess yourself. Get your money in the middle.

And another thing - In a FR game LP is later than you think. In a 9-handed game, I only consider the button and the CO to be LP. The hi-jack and one seat to his right is MP. Every other seat is EP.
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  #8  
Old 07-31-2007, 03:34 PM
KitCloudkicker KitCloudkicker is offline
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Default Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I

fwiw i think people like me who are trying to learn nl should play super rockish pf.

as in, play only hands like PP and AK early and middle position.

and i think offsuit broadways arent particularly good in this game. you guys saw how clueless i was with my AQ in the BB.

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  #9  
Old 07-31-2007, 03:47 PM
phydaux phydaux is offline
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Default Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I

[ QUOTE ]
i think people like me who are trying to learn nl should play super rockish pf.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is correct, but only if you're playing FR.

In 6-max the blinds come around so quickly that it forces you to get in there mix it up with lesser holdings. That's why expert players clean up at 6-max - their ability to play marginal hands well after the flop.
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  #10  
Old 07-31-2007, 05:15 PM
Victor Victor is offline
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Default Re: Can we just get preflop out of the way? part I

"but remember the Rule of 5 & 10, "

what is this?
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