TD and relative position

Soviet Exile · #1 08-12-2006, 08:42 PM

Am I that wrong to think that in TD, unlike in hold em, it is better to have bad players behind you rather than in front of you? Or at least it's relatively better than in hold em.

*TT* · #2 08-12-2006, 08:44 PM

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Am I that wrong to think that in TD, unlike in hold em, it is better to have bad players behind you rather than in front of you? Or at least it's relatively better than in hold em.

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I'm not sure what you mean, in part because in hold'em you always want position on "the money". Can you give a few examples?

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

2461Badugi · #3 08-12-2006, 08:50 PM

Depends on what sort of bad players they are.

Soviet Exile · #4 08-12-2006, 08:53 PM

Sorry, TT, I like to be opaque I guess. In hold 'em, one likes to be to the immediate left of limpers and generally loose players to isolate. Usually these are bad players. It seems to me that in TD having good players behind me means they are going to use their position against me more often, while bad players don't know how to use their position as well. I'd rather be in position against the good ones, I think.

*TT* · #5 08-12-2006, 08:58 PM

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Sorry, TT, I like to be opaque I guess. In hold 'em, one likes to be to the immediate left of limpers and generally loose players to isolate. Usually these are bad players. It seems to me that in TD having good players behind me means they are going to use their position against me more often, while bad players don't know how to use their position as well. I'd rather be in position against the good ones, I think.

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With some exceptions, you always want to be last to act at all times. So anyone who is going to give you a hard time at the table you want behind you, not in front of you. TD is a game where position is critical, you will both make extra bets and save bets due to position.

T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

DustinG · #6 08-12-2006, 09:55 PM

I agree with 2461, that it depends. There was a player who was playing in our games a few weeks ago where having direct position on him was a nightmare. He played most hands and was very aggressive- sounds like a person to have position on, right? But he would do things like checkraise with his 7 draws, and lead out into multiple opponents while still drawing. Having position on him in multiway pots (and yes I always 3 bet when he opened) meant that I would get trapped between him and whoever hit their hand behind me. Eventually I refused to sit in the first 2 seats to his left because they were so unprofitable.

But when I sat to his immediate right it was great. I would lead into him with my pat hands and often get 3-bets in. Plus, since he was so aggressive in position he would always try to raise and force a break.

Having weak/passive players to your right is also very beneficial since they won't be coming after your big blind very often when it folds to them, and when they do you can outplay them.

Good aggressive players who are always 3-betting my raises and then using their position well behind me I obviously don't want to my left either- so it depends.

Edited to add that I want you on the other side of the table from me Soviet- I don't want you constantly messing with my blind or have position on me.

Soviet Exile · #7 08-12-2006, 10:04 PM

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Depends on what sort of bad players they are.

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This is correct, of course, but let's classify the types of bad players and talk about relative position relative to them.

Soviet Exile · #8 08-12-2006, 10:10 PM

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There was a player who was playing in our games a few weeks ago where having direct position on him was a nightmare. He played most hands and was very aggressive- sounds like a person to have position on, right?

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This may be my point as incoherent as it was. In hold 'em, the seat to the left of this guy would be a dream, while the seat to the right is jail (you are basically playing a slot machine waiting for a big hand).

DeathDonkey · #9 08-12-2006, 10:15 PM

Sounds like you just don't know some good ways to deal with a LAG fish on your left. That said it certainly is easiest with them on your right. In TDL and holdem and all poker games I can think of.

-DeathDonkey

Soviet Exile · #10 08-12-2006, 10:16 PM

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With some exceptions, you always want to be last to act at all times. So anyone who is going to give you a hard time at the table you want behind you, not in front of you. TD is a game where position is critical, you will both make extra bets and save bets due to position.

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Is this distinct from relative position in hold em? I think it is, and many of us think about relative position relative to hold em. So we need to get away from that thinking, in much the same way we need to get away from the tendency to slow play, for instance.