Please explain the stop-and-go to me.

[FeNeF]

I don't get it. I very very rarely use it. Most of the spots people suggest it in look really bad. I don't see AT ALL why you'd want to do it with small pairs.

Can you guys explain when it's a good idea and why?

[bones]

The theory behind it is this- Say you have a decent hand out of the blinds and someone in lp makes a raise. Your stack is such that you are likely to have no FE preflop. Say you have 1800 and he opens to 900 at 150/3. He's pretty much never folding if you shove. But he might fold if you call and shove any flop.

The reason why it's done with pairs is that you're trying to fold out hands that will beat you on the turn and river. Here's an example.

Button opens for 900 with KJ. You have 1700 in bb with 7s. You're likely ahead of his range and with the blinds and stacks the way they are, you pretty much have to play the hand. So you call. Let's say the flop is 952. Or A84 or 345. Or pretty much anything not containing a K or J. It's gonna be very tough for him to call your shove. By doing this, you prevent him from seeing his 6 outs twice on the turn and river. You can do this with any hand really, but it's most effective with smaller pairs IMO, because they are the hands that least want to see all 5 cards.

If your hand is strong enough where you don't mind seeing all 5 cards, then obviously get the money in preflop. This is just another line to consider with marginal hands that come up at certain stack sizes.

[RexWoo]

I never use it also but the idea is, when you have absolutly no FE preflop, to gain a smalish % of FE on the flop when villan has not hit.

[AMT]

it is generally very rarely used in sit and gos. i would suggest never using it as opposed to over-using it, but it can be effective...just make sure, if you find a good spot, that a)youre doing it against the right opponent, b) those stacks are right for it and kind of b part 2 is to make sure youre not giving him odds to call. last night i was watching another 2p2er at the FT of a 109 mtt on stars and someone tried to stop and go him but was giving him ridiculous odds on the flop so the move was kind of pointless.

[FeNeF]

I know what the idea behind it is. But if you have no FE, and your hand isn't strong enough to go ahead and shove preflop why pull a stop+go?

Bones, in your example it would seem you're giving him the opportunity to make a correct fold, no? He gets to choose whether he wants to continue. You're just shoving it in blind.

[AMT]

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I know what the idea behind it is. But if you have no FE, and your hand isn't strong enough to go ahead and shove preflop why pull a stop+go?

Bones, in your example it would seem you're giving him the opportunity to make a correct fold, no? He gets to choose whether he wants to continue. You're just shoving it in blind.

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but the chips you gain are big in number and very valuable. taking down a stop and go can often nearly double you up, and your forcing yourself into a situation where you now have FE and a chance to take down a raised pot without a showdown. again, not worth using it a lot in sngs cause its often not a good idea in many seemingly good spots but...yeah


its basically like saying "i can flip PF for stacks or i can just rob his ass blind on the flop when this [censored] works"

[bones]

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Bones, in your example it would seem you're giving him the opportunity to make a correct fold, no? He gets to choose whether he wants to continue. You're just shoving it in blind.

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Yeah...it's a sit n go. You should be doing exactly this about 200x/day.

[Jbrochu]

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I know what the idea behind it is. But if you have no FE, and your hand isn't strong enough to go ahead and shove preflop why pull a stop+go?

Bones, in your example it would seem you're giving him the opportunity to make a correct fold, no? He gets to choose whether he wants to continue. You're just shoving it in blind.

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I think I'm basically repeating Bones here, but this is what I look for when deciding whether to stop-n-go:

1) Your hand is too strong to fold considering your stack size/tournament position

2) You have no FE if you push preflop

3) You have enough chips that a postflop push has some FE

4) Your hand possibly benefits from denying the opponent a chance to see all 5 cards


Although it seems to give your opponent a chance to play perfectly against you, it still has advantages for you.

I do agree people overuse and misuse the play often.

[FeNeF]

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Bones, in your example it would seem you're giving him the opportunity to make a correct fold, no? He gets to choose whether he wants to continue. You're just shoving it in blind.

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Yeah...it's a sit n go. You should be doing exactly this about 200x/day.

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But.. you're letting him play well. He folds when he and calls when he should. Why is this a good thing for us?

I guess you could change the example so that he is getting odds to draw to 6 outs, but you're probably getting called (correctly) then.

[bones]

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Bones, in your example it would seem you're giving him the opportunity to make a correct fold, no? He gets to choose whether he wants to continue. You're just shoving it in blind.

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Yeah...it's a sit n go. You should be doing exactly this about 200x/day.

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But.. you're letting him play well. He folds when he and calls when he should. Why is this a good thing for us?

I guess you could change the example so that he is getting odds to draw to 6 outs, but you're probably getting called (correctly) then.

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At this point, the odds don't matter. He can play perfectly but you still gain. Given the situation I posted, ANY course of action you can take to increase the chances of you winning the hand by even a few % is definitely worth it.