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View Poll Results: Which is more +EV?
Call 31 83.78%
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  #1  
Old 09-24-2007, 02:48 PM
Mat Sklansky Mat Sklansky is offline
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Default Pm received by a few of us. Not sure what to think.

Farewell to 2+2

From: Kaj

Mason,

I've enjoyed this site for a long time. However, I will no longer be posting here or purchasing 2+2 material. I believe this site is completely unprofessional in the way it is managed. I know, it's just a message board, lighten up. That said, I have no problem with posters being rude, crude, witty, humorous, combative, whatever. My problem is that, IMO, your moderators represent your company, even if they are volunteers. The tone of the site seems to be a bunch of cliques ruled over arbitrarily by a some very rude, childish, power-tripping internet forum moderators. Not all are this way, but certainly more than a few. What's worse, is that the administrators of this site have ample evidence of this behavior as the very forum designed to discuss these issues (ATF) has become a cesspool of mods berating posters. On one hand, I enjoy such hazing and humor, but from other posters, not the administrators of the site itself. It casts a very unprofessional and unwelcoming image to your site. Some of the mods in question are over the top in flaunting the very rules of the forum they moderate (NT! is a good example of a mod who enjoys showing he needn't comply with 2+2 rules on profanity, insults, etc.). If mods can't be a good example and neutral in their style, then your site has devolved into a bunch of childish cliques. I remember in the past much more unbiased and respectful moderation by people like andyfox, compared to the juvenile insults of a tuq, jman220, NT!, stabn, and the like.

I'm sure a lost poster is no big deal, even if under my previous account I've been here since 2003. But I do suggest you take a look at how those charged with running your site represent your publishing company. I will be selling my 2+2 books on CraigsList and no longer buying them in the future.

Respectfully,
Kaj
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  #2  
Old 09-24-2007, 02:57 PM
iron81 iron81 is offline
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Default Re: Pm received by a few of us. Not sure what to think.

I dunno if we want to start holding mods to a higher posting standard, but it would be nice if someone handled the srs biz in ATF if I'm away or don't know the answer. I assume this PM is related to Mat's new ATF sticky.

I think one reason for the idea that "Mods gang up on users" in ATF is the don't criticize other mods rule. If a user criticizes a mod in ATF, it is basically against the rules to take the user's side. Since mods are a high percentage of posters in ATF, this can lead to a distorted view about the wisdom of a moderating decision.
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  #3  
Old 09-24-2007, 03:14 PM
diebitter diebitter is offline
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Default Re: Pm received by a few of us. Not sure what to think.

To be fair to NT!, he's had some real nitwits lately complaining about perfectly reasonable actions. In fact, I'm more appreciative of what he has to get through than I've ever been after seeing those dumb complaints.

I also think within forums, mods should run it as they see fit, and more laxity should be given to the busier forums like OOT and 4Life than the smaller forums, and there's just so much to get through for the mods of the bigger forums.


However, having said that, NT's being doing his rude asshat arrogant routine forever in ATF, and now seems a good time to actually curtail it massively. Just keep it in OOT or whatever. The same goes for any mods.

I think horsing around with other posters you know, like Tuq does, is perfectly fine though.

To unknown posters, we would be best to treat them with reasonable and considered comment in ATF.

If a poster posts a complaint that really doesn't deserve individual comment, just cut and paste the section of the sticky they broke the rule from.
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  #4  
Old 09-24-2007, 03:21 PM
entertainme entertainme is offline
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Default Re: Pm received by a few of us. Not sure what to think.

I'm not a fan of calling posters idiots, (for example), even if I would judge some of their actions idiotic.

With subtlety, you can make your point without splashing around in the gutter.
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  #5  
Old 09-24-2007, 03:21 PM
iron81 iron81 is offline
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Default Re: Pm received by a few of us. Not sure what to think.

[ QUOTE ]
With subtlety, you can make your point without splashing around in the gutter.

[/ QUOTE ]
For example, the Nielsio lolcats thread in ATF now is really funny.
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  #6  
Old 09-24-2007, 03:26 PM
tuq tuq is offline
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Default Re: Pm received by a few of us. Not sure what to think.

[ QUOTE ]
I remember in the past much more unbiased and respectful moderation by people like andyfox, compared to the juvenile insults of a tuq, jman220, NT!, stabn, and the like.

[/ QUOTE ]
cabn isn't a mod and hasn't been for awhile. In fact, since probably before this poster re-registered under this account. I mean, I know everyone here knows that but have no clue how he missed it.

Also, I'm pretty sure I've never addressed this particular poster. Reason being is that from my limited sample size he is loony tunes, thus I have nothing positive to say to him and really don't care to get into some Politics-esque debate with him. The bottom line is, I hardly think he is representative of the average 2+2 poster or lurker. I also now get why you made the ATF sticky and why Ryan Beal made that clique post earlier. Knowing where it came from makes both things less meaningful IMO.
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  #7  
Old 09-24-2007, 03:27 PM
ahnuld ahnuld is offline
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Default Re: Pm received by a few of us. Not sure what to think.

I just continue to post mostly the same as if I was a regular poster, with a few insults leveled down. Dont see why we should be held to a much higher standard for a volunteer job.
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  #8  
Old 09-24-2007, 03:34 PM
JaredL JaredL is offline
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Default Re: Pm received by a few of us. Not sure what to think.

[ QUOTE ]
Dont see why we should be held to a much higher standard for a volunteer job.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really see how us volunteering is relevant. We're volunteering to do the job asked of us by the admins.

If I volunteer at a local elementary school reading to the kids, I'm not going to say "but I'm a volunteer!" when they get mad at me for swearing.

In a more relevant example, if I were a volunteer firefighter in a small town, they would probably remove me from my position if I behaved inappropriately even if it had nothing to do with fighting fires. So I would be held to a higher standard than the average citizen while I was a volunteer.
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  #9  
Old 09-24-2007, 03:35 PM
Mat Sklansky Mat Sklansky is offline
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Default Re: Pm received by a few of us. Not sure what to think.

I hope that our concerns are fairly meaningless.
My sticky will remain regardless, both as a gesture of good will,and as a measurement tool.

Nobody has sent me a message yet. And I suspect and hope that the sticky is pointless from a practical standpoint.
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  #10  
Old 09-24-2007, 03:39 PM
tuq tuq is offline
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Default Re: Pm received by a few of us. Not sure what to think.

[ QUOTE ]
If I volunteer at a local elementary school reading to the kids, I'm not going to say "but I'm a volunteer!" when they get mad at me for swearing.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hey kids I gotta rhyme for ya. It's from my favorite poet, his name is Andy Clay:

Hickory Dickory Dock
Some chick was suckin' my [censored]
The clock struck two
I dropped my goo
I dumped the bitch off on the next block

OH!
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