Mr. Gatorade’s Lies cost me over 70k at Full Tilt

[ntnBO]

Some of you people are hilarious. Why do any of you think you are OWED an explanation from FT? This has nothing to do directly with you. The only parties involved are BeatMe1 and FT. Now, if I were BeatMe1 I would certainly want and demand at least some sort of explanation as this is her money. But for outsiders to jump up and down demanding an explanation from FT otherwise it's stealing, is downright laughable.

It's their world.(FT, PS, UB, etc.) We have to play by their rules, otherwise it's back to video games.

BO

[fraac]

OT: Wow, someone who knows what 'begging the question' means. Kudos.

[bouglas]

[ QUOTE ]
Some of you people are hilarious. Why do any of you think you are OWED an explanation from FT? This has nothing to do directly with you. The only parties involved are BeatMe1 and FT. Now, if I were BeatMe1 I would certainly want and demand at least some sort of explanation as this is her money. But for outsiders to jump up and down demanding an explanation from FT otherwise it's stealing, is downright laughable.

BO

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I don't want to play at a site if I know they will play god without a reasonable explanation. If you had any cash sitting in a FT account you would feel the same way. It's not rocket science to appreciate this fact.

[NFuego20]

[ QUOTE ]
Some of you people are hilarious. Why do any of you think you are OWED an explanation from FT? This has nothing to do directly with you. The only parties involved are BeatMe1 and FT. Now, if I were BeatMe1 I would certainly want and demand at least some sort of explanation as this is her money. But for outsiders to jump up and down demanding an explanation from FT otherwise it's stealing, is downright laughable.

It's their world.(FT, PS, UB, etc.) We have to play by their rules, otherwise it's back to video games.

BO

[/ QUOTE ]

Completely agree. If in fact this guy is a bot, and it has been proven, then THANK YOU Mr. Gatorade for ridding him from the site. It is their world, we do have to play by their rules. I have no choice but to trust that these sites are acting in a responsible manner and doing what they can to protect their games. I for one am willing to take the calculated risk then to play on their sites. I personally believe FT would not have shut down this account and confiscated funds without amazingly convincing evidence. But at the end of the day, I haven't seen the evidence, nor have many other people posting replies here. I'm just amazed though at how people are lashing out at MrGatorade. Everything about my instincts tell me that he has done us all a service. And even if by some slim chance I'm wrong about that, none of us really have any way of knowing. Yet some of us still jump down the guy's throat.

It just seems to me that too many people are ignorant of the threat that bots pose, and how many of them really are out there. There are forums devoted to building online poker bots. Do you really think these people are going to stay away? Do you care?

[NFuego20]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Some of you people are hilarious. Why do any of you think you are OWED an explanation from FT? This has nothing to do directly with you. The only parties involved are BeatMe1 and FT. Now, if I were BeatMe1 I would certainly want and demand at least some sort of explanation as this is her money. But for outsiders to jump up and down demanding an explanation from FT otherwise it's stealing, is downright laughable.

BO

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I don't want to play at a site if I know they will play god without a reasonable explanation. If you had any cash sitting in a FT account you would feel the same way. It's not rocket science to appreciate this fact.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do have plenty of cash sitting in a FT account and do not feel this way at all. I have little doubt the explanations are reasonable, they're just not presented to us for good reason. I also have little doubt that if FT ever investigated my play for any reason there would be nothing suspicious ever found. For that reason, I'm willing to take my chances.

[train.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Some of you people are hilarious. Why do any of you think you are OWED an explanation from FT? This has nothing to do directly with you. The only parties involved are BeatMe1 and FT. Now, if I were BeatMe1 I would certainly want and demand at least some sort of explanation as this is her money. But for outsiders to jump up and down demanding an explanation from FT otherwise it's stealing, is downright laughable.

BO

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I don't want to play at a site if I know they will play god without a reasonable explanation. If you had any cash sitting in a FT account you would feel the same way. It's not rocket science to appreciate this fact.

[/ QUOTE ]

As far as I know they have given a reasonable explanation. And I trust that they would not take this kind of action without one. We have to assume that they would not confiscate our money without one. If you can't make yourself trust them then you are a fool for leaving your money there.

I have money on FT and Stars. But it is a very insignificant percentage of my total worth and if I lost it to some site stealing it, while it would be disappointing, it wouldn't make any difference to my quality of life. I would hope that 70k is insignificant to beatme or that your br is insignificant to you too. I can't imagine playing at a level where the loss of the required br would cause me great distress. Playing with scared money is not the optimal way to gamble. Maybe my feelings would change if I wasn't just playing micro stakes.

[Injection]

I think it's highly probable that BeatMe1's intentions for creating this thread were not to prove her innocence, but solely to create a [censored] of backlash for FTP out of revenge for their findings.

Maybe she feels she has a right to do this since they've confiscated 70k from her, but in my mind if she really wanted to prove she wasn't using a bot, there's other courses of action such as those mentioned in my previous post (videos of playing/pics of PC etc.).

The way she's responded really just looks to me like "Well you caught me botting and took my 70k, now let's see what damage I can do to you". Judging by the heated arguements in this thread, the ploy seems to be working well.

[sethypooh21]

[ QUOTE ]
OT: Wow, someone who knows what 'begging the question' means. Kudos.

[/ QUOTE ]

Former life as a political blogger FTW [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[apefish]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's highly probable that BeatMe1's intentions for creating this thread were not to prove her innocence, but solely to create a [censored] of backlash for FTP out of revenge for their findings.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is entirely possible.
I've always been in the camp of trying to not judge the innocence or guilt of the actual bot question here because I think it's a complete waste of time for various reasons.
I do however think that regardless of motivation Beatme had the right to question a non-transparent process.
This would be even more so if in fact it was a violation that wasn't immediately apparent as a true "bot" violation.
That isn't just because of previous results from Full Tilt on issues like this... but rather previous processes.

Let's stop being so results oriented about this.
It's the process that should and has mattered.

Teddy's post where he encourages them to consider potential contrary evidence is spot on.
We saw in the NL thread that what people think may be evidence isn't always what FullTilt thinks is evidence.
There is no reason to believe the opposite isn't true.

I am certainly glad that Full Tilt is looking into the issue of refunds. I know there must be posters here that feel they are owed a refund.
For those that haven't emailed about a refund- I would actually think one way to see if the process works is to not email at this point and see if Tilt comes close to getting it right.
But I wouldnt go so far as to actually suggest that given the track record.
Full Tilt should keep in mind it's rather easy for players to track their losses to Beatme and any of the other bots, so they better do a good job of following thru on this and getting some money back to players.

If FullTilt caught a botter, great.
I don't really care because I don't feel I can make a judgment about the chances they get enough of these cases right.

[El_Hombre_Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It would certainly be interesting to know what might happen if Beatme1 did employ the services of a lawyer and challenge the act of FT under their own T&C. With 70k riding on the outcome if I was her and I was certain of my innocence then this is what I would be doing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I stated this upthread I believe, but I strongly suspect that a court would find the T&C unenforceable against beatme insofar as it allows FTP to unilaterally seize the funds without giving any detailed explanation or recourse.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno.. but for selfish reasons I'd like to see the case litigated. I don't know where any of the parties are, but I think the court probably couldn't avoid the underlying issue of whether the original contract was illegal (and thus unenforceable). Because I'm fairly positive that internet poker is legal in almost all states, and this executive branch apparently beleives otherwise, I'd like to see a post "safe port act" court ruling saying so.