Bots in PartyPoker's 6-max Limit games?

[5thStreetHog]

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So where is your problem?

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The problem is:

a) They are taking up seats, that could be inhabited by players, who are worse.

b) They are winning, which means, that they are helping the real fish bust sooner.

Also if it becomes a wellknown fact, that this happens, it will scare away the real customers in the long run.

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the real customer for the house is anybody that pays rake.
(bots are the perfect house customer)

you do not have a divine right to a steady supply of losers.
hunting for and finding the losers is your burden to bear.
nobody ever agreed to deliver losers to your doorstep.

ray bornert

[/ QUOTE ]Go play with your robots.Your idiotic PR campaign here is becoming annoying.

[matrix]

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My guess is that the problem is relatively localized. Perhaps a small group of college kids at a technical school in Germany or Australia. It could even be just one or two people.


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Nate, I would estimate that at any given time, at least 1,000 seats are taken up by various bots, across the different sites and levels.

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I would guess this is a *VERY* conservative estimate

some google research throws up this link...

Posted at thepokerforum.com

at thepokerforum.com/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=016485;p=#00002 0

(posting it so that you can't click the link - if this is OK to be posted as a click through link can a mod edit it please?)

You are correct to be worried.

Bots prevail on FT,UB,Stars ,Party ,Holywood ,wsex and many others.
I have listed the sites in order of % (most bots first)

There are a lot at low limit , micros are a waste of effort ,

There are a few at higher limits up to 10/20.

The simplest bots have a fixed style and just plod along at 1-2BB/100 , however
the level 4 or 5 bots that play at higher levels do much more.

They are interlinked to poker tracker and can profile YOU in 30 hands , they use this data in real-time and input it into their algorithms

they bluff, slow play , c-bet , check-raise , sit in , sit out , and recenty the more advanced can generate chat entries after specific wins/beats. can assure you that at a 10 seat 0.50/1.00 UB table you will be playing 4-5 bots.
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LOL @ being profiled in 30 hands [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] - I have gears biatches...

I found one (I think) playing a maniac style at FT yesterday. (6max $100NL NL) I do not want to post the ID unless I am mistaken. I took over $100 from it [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] when my combo draw cracked it's KK.

"Bot"(?) was playing all kinds of trash cards and raising left right and centre - showing bluffs - drwing to unlikely straights (but only when pot odds permitted) and killing the table. The only time it said anything was "NH" about 1 sec after I beat it - and then it immediately left the table (still with about $70 behind) - I thought that was strange so afterwards I looked through my PT db and I'm pretty convinced it was a bot. I have tagged it and will start following this player around - if I am convinced that this player is a bot I will mail FT and post the ID then - there are several other players I have spotted exhibiting similar behaviour (which I am also not posting as I don't want to tip them off, I'd muych prefer FT caught them in the act and confiscated funds [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ) - more news on this if anything happens.

[Mathemagician]

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most were from moscow, kiev, etc. they never, ever, ever responded to anything i typed in chat.

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This is funniest thing I've read today...see why?

[/ QUOTE ]Totally!!! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

M

[lol_variance]

Here is the funniest thing I've seen all day. The creator of a bot is a poster here on 2+2.
I guess I need to get one of those bots. It looks like 2+2 doesn't have a problem with them.

[matrix]

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Here is the funniest thing I've seen all day. The creator of a bot is a poster here on 2+2.
I guess I need to get one of those bots. It looks like 2+2 doesn't have a problem with them.

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the astute readers (and most of 2p2 posters are) will have already worked out that you are a bot user and poster on the forum in all likelihood.

long answer:

this means that you have already got one of those bots - are probably running it as we speak (hopefully at a loss)

Like you Ray is a new poster - I don't have a problem with *Anyone* posting on 2p2 (even bot users) - it is after all a public forum.

If Ray posted material on 2p2 that linked to sites that promote bot use (without prior moderator approval) he would most likely get banned and his posts deleted as 2p2 as far as I know take a very anti-bot stance.

I think it's better for all concerned to talk about things like this that effect the short term profitability of posters and the long term viability of internet poker in general.

Banning disussions like this imo would be very shortsighted - and you are seriously misinterpreting things if you think by allowing Ray to post on a public forum the owners and moderators of said forum are endorsing or condoning bots in any form.

short answer:

grow up and quit trolling.

(astute 2p2 posters might find the thread entitled "PBWC announcement posted on 2+2 forum" which is posted on the cheaters' forums (that I can't bring myself to link to - google it) interesting reading - I wonder which of the posters there is you "lol_variance"? )

[Vavavoom]

I have just read the cheaters' site for a little while ...

This is a much bigger problem than I imagined...

Vava

[matrix]

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I have just read the site for a little while ...

This is a much bigger problem than I imagined...



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my sentiments exactly.

it's not a huge problem now - but it's growing.

I saw one poster who's a WPT player who plays live poker for big cash buyins - he is also a "closet botter" i.e. he has mulitple accounts with different usernames that he runs his bots on anonymously - another poster claims to make $50k a year running 6 bots 24/7 365 - where is that $50k coming from??

Soon there will come a time when there are more new signups to pokersites on average that are winning pro bots - than there are fish - once we hit that point it's all downhill.

Bots are continually improving - once they improve faster than the fish do - once there are more of them than there are fish then the entire economy of online poker will hit a very quick decline.

Ray and his customers seem to be completely blind to this - and they accuse us of being Ostriches.

I think right now in poker site land everything looks rosy. the customer base is growing profits are up - what will happen when the majority of the clueless public become aware than perhaps as much as 25% of the players they are playing are bots (maybe more) and abandon online poker for being unfair???

The poker sites won't take proactive action imo until their bottom line starts hurting - and by then it'll be like closing the stable door after the horse has been made into burgers I think.

Online Poker is a bit like the Goose that lays golden eggs. Poker botting is doing much the same thing I think as farmers do to Foie Gras geese.

I hate to sound like the voice of doom and all that - but I think we need to get this stuff out in the open and come up with some solution that benefits everyone - cos the botters aren't going to stop - the sites cannot police things the way they say they can - and I think that if some compromise isn't reached at some point in the next year or so then online poker might not be here the way it is now much longer.

Pokers a bit like a trickle up economy - the fish are the roots - they feed the beginners - the beginners feed the next people up and so on - wipe out the fish and the whole house of cards(sic) crashes.

[Rudis]

To sum it up: the cheat's standard bots are not winning. There are good pokerplayers on the forum. Good bots have been developed.
Most of us beat the bots. Most fish dont. This is a problem.

[RayBornert]

it's not possible to wipe out fish.
if this were true there'd be no slot machines.

a fish will continue to play as long as the
entertainment value of landing a nut hand is
a reality.

a fish will continue to play even though they
lose money more consistently than they win.

(i refer you back to the slot machine comment)

bots cannot kill holdem.

the truth is that most human lose money online
and some win.

the situation with bot owners is identical.
most bots lose - some win.

you do not have a divine right to win just because
you're developing a bot.


however, all online players have a divine right to do
everything in their power to try and win including but
not limited to: tracking, botting, teaming.

the real truth is that trackers, botters, teamers
definitely benefit from site t&c's that retard your
willingness to also engage in these potentially
edge increasing activities.

the current world record holder for the max amount
of cash confiscated from a botter in a single day
is zippy - he is also a noted for this quote now
known as the zippy doctrine

"if the field is level and i'm the better player then you are my fish"

the very most valuable truth you can learn as on online
player is that your fear of the site t&c is an actual
element of the larger game that the wisest amongst us are
already playing.

so what's the bottom line here?

the online field is very level
but if you're scared of the t&c and i'm not
then you are my fish.

ray bornert

[Roland32]

Seems to be the societal mantra of justified cheating. Keep telling eachother that in the meantime the rest of the pokerworld will try to stop you. You are no different than a lifelong criminal, you learn from your mistakes to try and Not get caught again. What you are doin is wrong and your a bad person please do not try to justify it. that is pretty petty. Even if its "just business"