50NL: AK 101 for the millionth time

[bozzer]

so we are getting 2-1 pot odds, so our showdown equity is good enough to call.

i disagree that we are in a RIO situation.

1) we're in position which really helps with the RIO/IO situation obviously

2) if we hit our equity against TT+,AQ+ is approx 72% and depending on the board the calling range might be that wide (mostly not admittedly).

3) his range is not that narrow - AJ could be in there for instance.

OOP against a tight player 3betting, you have a point.

[barryc83]

How many times have you seen him 3bet pf (not just 3bet you)? If he was getting out of line at all or if I had a crappy image I would 4bet and obv call push. The sample is very small, but you should have some idea just how active he is and how much "play" he's been giving postflop.

You 4bet this hand bc most a lot of people will fold TT/JJ and we're technically behind these hands. Also, if he's 3betting light its just a simple valuebet where we take down a medium size pot uncontested (ie free monies).

I'd probably shove this flop honestly. So many people feel that they have to win every 3bet pot that I'll felt TPTK on this "scary" flop. Also, half these morons just pot any flop after they 3bet.

[Triggerle]

[ QUOTE ]
i disagree that we are in a RIO situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Think about the following:
<ul type="square">[*]If the flop contains an A, which hands in his range will put much money in?[*]If the flop contains a K, which hands in his range will put much money in?[*]If you miss, will you be ahead of his range?[/list]Face it, if you hit your hand only AA,KK,AK will put substantial money in. A range that has you crushed 20:80. Of course some donkey will stack off with JJ occasionally but we are not talking about players we have such reads on.

If you miss you are behind 30:60 because high pairs are such a big part of his range. But notice you actually have better chances of winning the hand if you fail to make top pair.(!)

This is almost the classic RIO situation. You have a hand that will not make you money if ahead and will lose you a lot of money if you are behind.

[mvdgaag]

shove it

[munkey]

I agree with Triggerle about the domination aspect-consider a step down and AQ then.

In a 3bet pot vs ok player on an ace high or queen high board what do you beat?

[corsakh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What kind of flop are you hoping for when you call his preflop 3 bet? If you can't play this flop, then I think you need to fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]


Thanks. I'll just fold preflop next time.

Problem solved.

Awesome.

/thread

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if your stuck on this flop you should certainly fold preflop.

[DemonOfTheFall]

OP: How often are you willing to shove favourable flops over his c-bet if you miss? Isn't that where the benefit of calling 3-bets in positions lies given you don't have enough of a stack to float with? If you aren't willing to do this I can't possibly see why you don't 4-bet small/fold.

Somebody please educate me because I have a lot of difficulty with this spot too and I just end up folding to 3-bets a lot because I have no idea how to play when I miss and most opponents are so passive at 25/50NL I rarely stack them when I do hit anyway.

[Chomp]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, if your stuck on this flop you should certainly fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

corsakh, with respect mate, I'm really not sure why people keep saying this. There are several respected uNL regs in this thread disagreeing about just about every aspect of this hand pre and post - I really don't think the issues are simple at all, and I certainly don't think flop decision is so obvious as you suggest at all.

.................

Would be great to hear thoughts on this hand from AJ or Isura or DanB or Matt or Sunny or...

[corsakh]

This is a very simple case. What you preflop is not very important, it depends on your playstyle. If you think he is tight, just call and see the flop. If you think he 3bets light, you can either 4bet because you are certainly ahead of his range or you can call to get decent value from AQ and KQ. Both options are viable, I dont see any disagreement here.

But, if you call someones 3bet preflop and you hit what you wanted to hit - I cant possibley see any justifiable discussion 100deep.

[Dan Bitel]

hey chomp,

I'm in the 4betting camp here. esp as you opened on button and he's got aggro stats and he's 3bet you before.

I normally just mash the pot button here, but I guess just shoving is OK too. The great thing about having AK here is that it lowers the chances he has AA/KK. and every other hand we're flipping with.

Giving his a "getting all in preflop" range of QQ+/AK, then we need him to fold 42% of the time. You guys will know if this is likely or not. I personally think it is given the situation and if you give him a 3betting range even as tight as AQ+/TT+, then thats easily more than 42% he's folding. Add in a few light 3bets etc and I think this becomes a trivial 4bet preflop.

As for the flop, I guess to be on the safe side, you can just fold, but once you have some reads, this could become a pretty easy shove