Complicated SHOE ruling - you make the call.

[doublejoker]

Here is the situation. It is the last hand of Omaha Hilo. The button is in seat 8. Seat 1 is an empty Seat; Seat 2 is the small blind. I am the Big Blind in Seat 3. The small blind goes bust on this hand and the button is moved to Seat 1. I announce to the table that I have already paid my Big Blind and when we get to Holdem I will be the small blind. Seats One and Two are filled during the other games. I tell seat 2 that on the Holdem round I will be the small blind and he will get to sit out. He likes this news because the blinds are now at the ridiculus stage with the averaage stack having only 7 big bets. As luck would have it I go out on the last hand of the stud round and now they are posting the blinds for the Holdem round. The Button is still in Seat 1. Seat 2 was supposed to sit out; I was supposed to be the small blind in seat 3; and the big blind was supposed to be in seat 4. Seat 2 has never posted a blind as he was moved; but is in a dead position. Since I just busted out; who takes over the blind positions? I was pretty sure the floor made the wrong ruling. I informed the floor that i had already posted the Big blind from seat 3 and that seat 4 should be the Big Blind. First they ruled that since seat 4 hadnt ever posted a big blind; that seat 2 would post the big blind with no small blind; then they ruled that seat 2 can assume any position even the small blind (which was actually mine in seat 3); eventually they decided seat 2 was the small blind and seat 4 was the Big Blind. Was this decision correct?

[Rottersod]

Dude, you're making my head hurt.

[kemystery]

If the house rules call for a dead button in that instance then yes the decision is correct, it boils down to this in regards to the button in tournaments; no player may sit into the button position without paying the blinds, in instances where players keep moving out of the upcoming blinds you can freeze the button on the last player to pay the blinds, then the newly arriving players can then post 'just' a big blind (One blind directly in front of the button, on the next deal that same player would then have the small blind, the button remains on the same player for 3 deals in this example), if the players in those seats keep going broke the floor would either bring in new players or Seat 4 would take the big blind, this practice is exceedingly common in almost any tournament, as are online tournament players who are experts in regards to live tournament rulings

[Spook]

It doesn't matter what has happened with the players that busted out, it matters what happened with the players that are actually at the table.

What would happen if every player who was at the table busted and was replaced by new players?

[JohnnyGroomsTD]

The button should be in the pppropriate seat (1). If any player at the table posted the BB on he previous flop game hand, then all players between the button(seat 1) and that player will have to sit out. every other player is entitled to a hand, as when players move to the table from broken tables assume the rights the position to which they were moved. The action in between the flop games irrelevant, as the button never moves. The floor should pretend that the last hand of the previous flop game and the upcoming hand of the next flop game occured one immediatley following the other, and make the decision accordingly.

[JohnnyGroomsTD]

players can sit into the button position without paying the blinds. Any position that a player can be broken out of on their previous table, they can inherit at their new table

[arcticfox]

[ QUOTE ]
It doesn't matter what has happened with the players that busted out, it matters what happened with the players that are actually at the table.

What would happen if every player who was at the table busted and was replaced by new players?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would accuse the dealer of stealing all the chips....

[kemystery]

[ QUOTE ]
players can sit into the button position without paying the blinds. Any position that a player can be broken out of on their previous table, they can inherit at their new table

[/ QUOTE ]

really? care to cite an instance where a player from table 1 gets redrawn to table 2 and then assumes the button at the new table - a player can get seated in the CO without going thru the blinds, but not the button specifically

I disagree that a player who is redrawn gets the specific position they were currently in at table X when the table break occured for a redraw to table Z. That would mean every player would have to be tracked to their new table and assigned position and seats-

Is this what you are refering to? because I assure you it would not happen in a tournament that Jack McClellend is running, but I could def see some off rulings/rules in random casino tourneys

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
players can sit into the button position without paying the blinds. Any position that a player can be broken out of on their previous table, they can inherit at their new table

[/ QUOTE ]

really? care to cite an instance where a player from table 1 gets redrawn to table 2 and then assumes the button at the new table - a player can get seated in the CO without going thru the blinds, but not the button specifically

I disagree that a player who is redrawn gets the specific position they were currently in at table X when the table break occured for a redraw to table Z. That would mean every player would have to be tracked to their new table and assigned position and seats-

Is this what you are refering to? because I assure you it would not happen in a tournament that Jack McClellend is running, but I could def see some off rulings/rules in random casino tourneys

[/ QUOTE ]

What he is refering to is that a player can draw the button on a table break. There was a time when tournaments had the player sit out until he was behind the button, but that practice was abandoned years ago. A players assumes the rights and responsibilities of the seat he draws.

[MaverickUSC]

Paragraphs please.