Most over-rated poker book of all time?

[jeffnc]

[ QUOTE ]
First off, I would argue that HPFAP is the most under-rated book as opposed to over-rated. No book in the history of poker impacted games like this book did. Remember, the original version came out in 1988 when the typical regular was extremely weak-tight, and we have sold over 250,000 copies. So it's influence was certainly felt.

[/ QUOTE ]

I called it overrated, and I'm going to change my opinion and agree with you from a certain perspective.

The book reminds me of some musical artists that have highly regarded albums. Or even some musical artists themselves. The music is not really that enjoyable or listenable necessarily, but it is influential. There are many examples of "great" albums that no one really likes listening to, yet they were "important" in the sense that they went in a new direction or influenced poker thinking.

HPFAP is like that. It's not a very good book, but it was an important book and an influential book. So I would agree that it is both overrated and underrated at the same time.

[Montrealcorp]

"Thank you. I was beginning to wonder if anyone in this thread had heard of "context". "

huh?

how can u speak of context?
i never said WLLH was not ok when published....
but in 2007,i still hear that WLLH is a great book for beginner..
it aint anymore.I would be out of context if i claimed that WLLH didnt had is place since the first published edition,wich i never sayed that!!!

im certainly not out of context saying theres lot more better book then WLLH NOW,wich means ,in 2007 stop claiming WLLH is still a good book...god..
in 2007, im saying WLLH is clearly overrated now.

and has for the comment about ITH might be a bit too advanced?
are u kidding me?.If someone read this book and dont comprehend a thing in it or not even 50%,he should thereafter immediately quit poker.....

god ,how many time i hear to a beginner asking a question on wich book to read,they all say, buy TOP ,zzzzzzzzzz

TOP was my first book and let me tell u this,i would rather had red ITH then TOP.
TOP is way much harder then ITH,but if lot of players here suggest reading TOP first,what does it mean?
ITH harder to read and more advanced then TOP,get real....

[PorkchopDJG]

[ QUOTE ]
Theory of Poker and SSHE.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is 100% wrong and I would question anyone that thinks these 2 books aren't in the top 5 holdem books ever written.

I play primarily low and mid level limit holdem and these two books are invaluable in these games. I think reading these two books alone would be enough to turn a loosing player at these limits into a winning player. I have re-read both several times and learn some new things every time.

Those 2 books are in no way overrated.

Top 5 Poker Books I have ever read;
1)SSHE
2)TOP
3)HPFAP
4)Harrington I
5)Harrington II

Most Overrated
1)Supersystem I
2)Caros Book of Tells
3)Anything by Hellmuth

[jeffnc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Theory of Poker and SSHE.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is 100% wrong and I would question anyone that thinks these 2 books aren't in the top 5 holdem books ever written.

I play primarily low and mid level limit holdem and these two books are invaluable in these games. I think reading these two books alone would be enough to turn a loosing player at these limits into a winning player. I have re-read both several times and learn some new things every time.

Those 2 books are in no way overrated.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a non sequitur. It could be the greatest poker book ever written and still be overrated. You don't seem to be following the logic here.

[jeffnc]

[quoteTOP is way much harder then ITH,but if lot of players here suggest reading TOP first,what does it mean?

[/ QUOTE ]

As for ITH being too advanced, I'm not sure where that comes from. It's more advanced than say WLLH (which is probably overrated), but ITH could still be your first poker book, if you're willing to roll up your sleeves a little.

As far as TOP being recommended as an early poker book, I don't agree, but I can see both points of view. It's a dry, technical book that contains a lot of the fundamentals. I guess it depends on how you like to learn.

Personally, I learn through example best. I think ITH is one of the best poker books ever written. You can read that book and sit down at a (limit) poker game and win. I would much rather read ITH first and then TOP after. This would give me a better grounding of theory - going from specific to general.

If you like going from general to specific more, then read them in the opposite order. I do not learn very well this way.

[Dalek]

[ QUOTE ]
Second, there is no question in my mind that Super/System is the most over-rated book of all time. Before the poker boom began it was basically a forgotten book. Our books, like Theory of Poker, Hold 'em Poker for Advanced Players, and Seven-Card Stud for Advanced Players, as far as I could tell, far outsold it, and no serious player took the advice it contains seriously since there were better sources for all the games it discussed except for no-limit hold 'em which virtually no one played as a cash game for close to twenty years. Then when the boom started, the publicity machine began and you would hear over and over how it was the "bible of poker." If that would have been the case, there would have been no Super/System II.

By the way, don't misconstrue my remarks to say that Super/System I is a bad work. That was certainly not the case. But with the exception of the stud section, by 2003 (when the poker boom started), the rest of the book was completely obsolete. Draw poker, both jacks-or-better and ace-to-five lowball was dead, limit hold 'em had the old blind structure which makes the given strategy flawed for the double blind structure that has been the standard since the early 1980s, razz was basically a dead game, deuce-to-seven no-limit draw was only played by a very small number of people for high-stakes, stud high-low-split was now played as eight-or-better on those rare occasions (usually around a tournament) that it was spread, and no-limit hold 'em as a cash game essentially didn't exist. Yet I saw interview after interview, as well as constant write-ups, that this was the bible of poker.

Best wishes,
Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

Your just jealous that you didn't write a holy book of poker!

I actually thought Caro's book was quite good even though the charts, for me at least, were incomprehensible. I suppose it was a little over-rated though. Some of the adverts made it sound as if reading it made you psychic.

[brendons31]

Perhaps if poker was a religion then Supersystem would be its "bible" - A book of "fiction", followed by many, in which the content is rarely ever questioned.

[Copernicus]

Anything written by Negreaneau, any rating divided by 0 is infinitely overrated.

[Montrealcorp]

jeffnc:"As for ITH being too advanced, I'm not sure where that comes from. It's more advanced than say WLLH (which is probably overrated), but ITH could still be your first poker book, if you're willing to roll up your sleeves a little.

As far as TOP being recommended as an early poker book, I don't agree."


we are clearly on the same page u and i.
i was responding to a couple of posters for the line on ITH.
Of course ITH can be a great first book,i mean like i said,if u have difficulty reading ITH as a first book,quit poker now....seriously...

but what can i say,some here still think WLLH is still a great book,so be it,unless they think its a great book to pass to other begineers so they become weak tight.

As for TOP i still hear its a great first book,since each time a new poster comes on this site and ask wich first book to buy,lot of player says buy TOP....wich is clearly not a very good advice when u can benefit a lot more from other book and get more reward to buy TOP after....

well anyway,everyone got different opinion !

[dirty banana2007]

[ QUOTE ]
jeffnc:"As for ITH being too advanced, I'm not sure where that comes from. It's more advanced than say WLLH (which is probably overrated), but ITH could still be your first poker book, if you're willing to roll up your sleeves a little.

As far as TOP being recommended as an early poker book, I don't agree."


we are clearly on the same page u and i.
i was responding to a couple of posters for the line on ITH.
Of course ITH can be a great first book,i mean like i said,if u have difficulty reading ITH as a first book,quit poker now....seriously...

but what can i say,some here still think WLLH is still a great book,so be it,unless they think its a great book to pass to other begineers so they become weak tight.

As for TOP i still hear its a great first book,since each time a new poster comes on this site and ask wich first book to buy,lot of player says buy TOP....wich is clearly not a very good advice when u can benefit a lot more from other book and get more reward to buy TOP after....

well anyway,everyone got different opinion !

[/ QUOTE ]

Montrealcorp,

Who said ITH was too advanced? I merely pointed out that it was recommended by the author that another book such as WLLH was read first. WLLH is not an alternative to ITH, more like an introduction.

I havent said ITH couldnt be read as a first book, simply that some people may benefit from reading something else first.

I am sure there are people who learnt to play limit from HEFAP.

Nor did i say WLLH was a great book, merely that it was a (good) book that pretty much does what it sets out to do. I dont think it is over-rated, as i pointed out earlier you will see more people on this forum recommend GSIH ahead of WLLH.

I agree that ITH, SSHE or WTO are probably the bedrock for Limit players learning / improving their game...i just disagree that some players wont benefit from reading something else first according to their circumstances...just as i wouldnt recommend every non swimmer learning to swim gets thrown into the deepend of a pool or a kid learning to ride a bike without stabilisers...some benefit, others dont...

And if you search out my posts you will find i am a big fan of ITH (i am just not as eloquent or as learned as Jeffnc when discussing its merits as i am fairly new to poker).