Restating My "Religion Does Good" Post More Explicitly

[David Sklansky]

If tomorrow it was somehow proved to everybody in the world that there was no god of any sort, about 80% of the world would be personally distressed. 15% would be neutral. Only about 5% would become happier.

About ten percent of those who became inititally distressed would eventually personally DIRECTLY benefit from this new found knowledge to a point where it have more than made up for their distress. Still lots more would remain unhappy.

Put another way, even unborn people, at least for a few generations would be more likely to be happier if they believed. (Unless they were born into a very advanced country like Sweden).

On the other side of the coin is the indirect benefits to those who remain distressed. Fewer wars. More people working on cancer cures. Less repression. These extra benefits tip the balance for some more distressed people. However even throwing these things in, I think the overall happiness units of the world population would decrease without religion. Too many people would remain extremely unhappy without their god. (Of course if that is not an important measure in your eyes we have a different discussion.)

I will admit that even using my criteria, it is close. But only because present day religions are often so bad. If all religious people were either Episcopalians or reformed Jews I don't think we would want to change them.

[madnak]

You're pulling this out of nowhere. Do you have anything other than personal intuitition to back up these claims? What if you're wrong about the ten percent figure you quote, and the true figure is actually twenty percent? Would that tip the scales? Do you have any rational process according to which you've reached your conclusion? If, as you admit, "it is close," then how can you have a high level of confidence in your estimate?

I think your main problem is that you hugely underestimate the impact of war and disease, and you hugely overestimate the impact of existential distress. And of course I think you ridiculously underestimate the ease with which people can get over this problem. I'd lay 2:1 that within 20 years at least 60% of the prior theists would have regained their level of satisfaction.

And the long term is just as important as the short term.

[IronUnkind]

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I think your main problem is that you hugely underestimate the impact of war and disease,

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But you hugely overestimate the degree to which religiousness influences such things.

[Phil153]

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Put another way, even unborn people, at least for a few generations would be more likely to be happier if they believed.

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wtf? At least invoke Baye's if you're going to make claims like that, or provide some kind of reasoning.

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(Unless they were born into a very advanced country like Sweden).

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The only thing advanced about Sweden is that they don't teach their kids psychotic crap like the OT and Jesus stories. Besides, there are plenty more countries beside Sweden with high atheist numbers and high happiness ratings. I linked the info in the other thread.

[drzen]

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I think your main problem is that you hugely underestimate the impact of war and disease,

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But you hugely overestimate the degree to which religiousness influences such things.

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It's curious that Mr Sklansky is so keen on the end of religion, but has no problem with money, which may not be the root of all evil but lies at the root of most conflict.

[tame_deuces]

This sounds like nothing but personal opinion to me, and an attempt to 'put it in numbers' to give it some legitimacy.

There are reasons why having religious belief would lead to happiness that has nothing to do with needing a 'belief in god', for instance the need to fit in.

[hitch1978]

Am I naive to believe that a number of people, if told tomorrow 'There is 100% NO GOD - here's the proof', would suddenly see things like rape, murder, theft, robbery etc. acceptable?

I am not saying I agree or disagree with OP, just trying to add something that seems to be always forgoten in these conversations. And I am not only talking about devout believers here. There is a MASSIVE difference between non-belief in god, (and in the ramifications therin implied with regard to everlasting punishment/reward etc,) and knowing for a fact there is no god.

[carlo]

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I will admit that even using my criteria, it is close. But only because present day religions are often so bad. If all religious people were either Episcopalians or reformed Jews I don't think we would want to change them.

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Yipes!!! The British Lion bows it's head to thunderous applause. Justification is here, the Queen Mother sits in the kitchen, breathing a sigh of relief. If not for Sklansky we were lost but now Rule Brittanica!!. Henry the Eighth rolls in his grave, a smile, the righteous justification of adultery.

Big Ben, the Royal Navy, Houses of Parliment hold day of celebration as justification is succinct, clear and in wondrous procession.

Pox on you!! Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, Conservative Jew, Christians not of the Island, and of course all others!The work of men through their lives in concert is nothing for the Grecian Harp, Roman Law, a Beethoven Sonata, the Wonder of a Michaelangelo were all for nought, lost in the dismal burp of an improbable chance.

The blather of an Olympian Hubris, reason of the unreasonable strikes again. fades away....

[hitch1978]

The queen mother has been dead for a while now...

[carlo]

Seriously, cannot you see that this is the very time you speak of? Loss of the Godhead is prevalent throughout the major religions, the connection is lost.The consequence is an abstract materialism which is permeating each and every religion. Hell, the first to be infected by materialism is the churches and especially the Christian Church.

The Godhead is approached by perception and in this the fight goes on, as Man gains new perceptive abilities, in time and through recurrent lives. We've crashed to the earth and in fact have crashed to the sub-earthly in our perceptions. This is the very world you are speaking to.