KK in the Big Blind

[Jaran]

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...I guess I am having a hard time accepting that the UTG guy just went runner runner on me to make the flush when I was ahead the whole time.

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Be very careful of this kind of thinking. Believing you are entitled to a pot because you were the best, are a better player, the other guy sucks, etc., is the quick road to burning off lots of bb and mega tilt. Becoming a good post flop player is not just about when to bet and raise, but also when to fold. A big mistake a lot of journeyman players make (and I'm one of them, make no mistake) is thinking that because they have a better preflop game, the bets and pots postflop will naturally flow to their stack like the mississippi river into the gulf of mexico. The pot is not the entitlement of the best preflop hand. If this were the case, they wouldn't bother dealing any other cards, and the game would not be a game.

Getting sucked out on is part of poker, and, although it is no fun, it is valuable in that without the luck factor involved, bad players wouldn't play. Learn to accept when people suck out on you, and find the best way for you to move on beyond the anger that arises. Feeling entitled leads to very bad poker.

-J

[GLKST526]

I agree with Kit. Everything up to the river was exactly how you should have played it.

Ed says in one of his videos (and since I took the time to look it up I may as well just quote it) the first rule [of hand reading] is: don't assume your opponent plays like you do... Your opponents don't play like you do and if you assume that they do you can make some big mistakes", and I think that is the basis of his why you aren't crushing low limit post. In that situation, if you are a tight aggressive player, you can't see there being a bet and a call on an AQ2 flop without a hand that beats A3, and so you fold. In reality, the average low limit player does not play tight aggressive, they play too many hands and go too far with them, and that's why it's a mistake to fold in that particular situation.

Here is how your situation differs from that. In Ed's situation, the bet from the BB could be a very wide variety of hands, as the preflop raiser will often bet the flop regardless of whether they hit it or not. The limper's call similarly doesn't show strength because you would theoretically expect them to raise with a hand that beats yours. Therefore, you are seeing relatively unthreatening aggression from two players in front of you, and you have a reasonably strong hand, so folding is probably a mistake.

In your situation, the bet and the call show much more strength because of the texture of the board. The UTG bets into two people with 4 hearts on the board, and the CO calls. If it were just the UTG bet, I think a call can be argued for a little bit more forcibly, but the CO call really messes that up. What could he conceivably be calling with that can't beat KK? While the 11-1 odds are enticing, do you believe that you are better then 11-1 to beat two hands that have voluntarily put money in on the river with this board? I understand what Ed was going for in his post, but I think that that advice used without some moderation is asking for trouble.

I completely understand your mindset. I have spite called many a time when I knew I was beat just because I wanted to see how the donkeys had outdrawn me. It's not fun to go through a stretch where all your good hands get crushed, but the important thing is to just keep playing your best, and realize that it may take a while, but eventually it will turn back in your favor, you're big hands will hold up the majority of the time, and every so often you'll put a painful suckout on someone else

[sparky3474]

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but the CO call really messes that up. What could he conceivably be calling with that can't beat KK?

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Well oddly enough the CO called with K6o, he could not beat K high, go figure, so if he folded like he should, I would have called for sure.

[JJack]

when at river is only one villain correct play is b/f right?

[Marquis]

Maybe one of them has a heart, but maybe they both have 9s in their hand without heart kickers. I'm not folding.

[Fantam]

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when at river is only one villain correct play is b/f right?

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This idea was suggested some years ago by a good poster, Clarkmeister. You may be able to read more about it if you do a search.

The idea is that your river bet is a kind of semi-bluff. You might have the best hand, but if you dont your bet may fold your opponent.

The reasoning is also that your opponent will be unlikely to raise unless he has the case Ace. So, if your oponnent does raise, you can safely fold.