Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)

[Jon1000]

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One thing that disturbs me is that Mom doesn't seem to love May at all. But May, because the filial piety virtues have been ingrained in her, feels the need to honor and obey a woman that doesn't care much for her in the first place. If May has a problem here, it's martyr syndrome.

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I guess I have a little problem with this statement, and I'm not sure exactly why, so I'm going to ramble at it for a moment.

May's mom feels that she has a duty to see May married, financially taken care of, and with a Chinese male. As far as she knows, May has none of these things and is doing what she sees as her duty before her daughter loses an opportunity. May has not explicitly told her differently. It seems sort of extreme to extrapolate from an act that is in a warped way supposed to be for May's benefit, not just her mom's, that May's mom must not love her at all.

Asian love is kind of strange sometimes. The situation you described is not the norm from my experience with Chinese friends in China nor Chinese friends in the US, but I do know people in May's situation regarding choosing their own profession, partner, etc that in some way deviates from the accepted family plan. Oh yeah. I'm third gen on my mom's side and second on my dad's.

[skunkworks]

PJ,

Besides what KB4Z already mentioned in this thread, I just thought I'd point out how poor all of this reflects on the relationship and its future, and also that chaotic situations just seem to find this girl. I mean, relationships are supposed to be like floating on clouds at first; the first two or three months are usually cake. I've never, ever heard of a relationship that started out filled with drama like this that ever ended up resolving itself to become a normal, healthy relationship. The precedence has already been set for this sort of horse crap, and you will have an impossible task trying to fix this.

This is too bad because you are clearly enamored with her, but part of learning how to build and maintain healthy relationships is to recognize what makes a relationship successful and then make the right choices, no matter how tough and painful they might be right now. Those choices range from putting your foot down and making sure that your voice is heard, all the way down to you breaking it off, saying "[censored] it", and eating yourself some mother [censored] candy.

[Big Poppa Smurf]

Joker you are confusing your feelings for this girl with trying to "save" her from some situation that you don't think is right. This isn't some situation where you can be her knight in shining armor; she has a lot of stuff she has to deal with here on her own.

[private joker]

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how much of this is based on what May has told you vs what youve determined based on your own analysis? just curiuos, as you seem to be making some strong accusations.

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It's all based on what she's told me. I have no reason to doubt my girlfriend's honesty, so I believe what she tells me about her and about how her mother feels. If ever it looks like I am using my own conjecture and assumptions in this thread, consider that I'm basically reiterating what I've heard from her lips. My language may be a bit more colorful, but the ideas and judgments are hers.

I think she's keen enough to fairly judge her family even though she doesn't seem strong enough to confront them.

[By-Tor]

lol @ cardo giving life/relationship advice.

[ratholeusoul]

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Marry him and kill him. Then go back to dating you. Works out best for both of you.

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This looks like you're writing advice to somebody with multiple personalities.

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Still a great play:

1) let girl sell herself to rich old dude
2) kill old dude
3) ???
4) profit

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Worked out great for this broad. With a bankroll-savvy you around, she could even stand a chance of not going mental with all of the old rich dude's wealth [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[private joker]

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Worked out great for this broad.

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No, she died of a drug overdose before turning 40.

[Isura]

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PJ,
I come from an Indian background, so I have some familiarity with the sort pressures that May is probably feeling. I have lots of friends and family who have been faced with this sort of issue. My experience is that basically three things can happen from this point:

1. She can be the good chinese daughter and do what her family wants.

2. She can convince her family to come to accept her choices.

3. She can break from her family, do what she wants, and be ostracized from them and her culture for the rest of her life.

I know people who have taken each of these options. Among the people I know, option 3 is hands down the worst. Family and culture are just too important to most people who have grown up in this sort of environment for them to ever be happy cut off from them. The folks I know have all come to resent their husband or wife, for whom they gave up all this -- they may know this is unfair, but can't help it. This obviously leads to unhappiness all around and is a disaster.

The folks I know who have taken option 1 are unhappy about it for a while, but eventually come to accept and live reasonably happily in their new situation.

But obviously option 2 is the best. My father managed this in marrying my mother, as did one of my cousins. Obviously this depends on a number of things outside of your or even her control -- some families are just so intolerant that there's nothing anybody can do to get them to accept this. But if May is determined and persistent enough, and you are willing to really step up, you can probably manage this.

Here obviously May is most important. She'll have to explain her feelings and why her choices can fit with the family, and will have to do so again and again in the face of a lot of arguments. She has to stay respectful and understanding of her parents' position while she does all this.

Here you can also play a big role. It will help a lot if you come from a good family. Your parents can also get involved. Basically, May will have to tell her parents about you. You will have to meet them and impress them -- both as a good person who understands the importance of family and who has good intentions for their daughter, and as someone with a bright successful future ahead of them (to support May and them in their old age). Your own family background -- especially how close you are with your extended family, your relationship with your parents and their relationship to the rest of your family, and what they do/how successful they are will also be very important. Eventually having your parents and close relatives include her parents in some of their own family functions can be the thing that closes the deal. If you come from a large and traditional Jewish family, this could be a very positive thing from their point of view.

Obviously there is no way you can do any of this if you are not extremely serious about this girl. Not to say you have to be absolutely sure you will marry her, but you better be very seriously considering it at the least.

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Great advice yad. I hope PJ takes it to heart.

[MicroBob]

Set him up on a rape accusation or something?
Probably slightly less risky than killing him.

5 years in prison is better than 50 years (total guesses on what you might end up with if caught).

Or try to set him up with a hooker or something and get some compromising photos of him.

[Howard Treesong]

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To make a poker metaphor out of it (and to be pessimistic/honest), I'd say I'm drawing to about 3 outs on the flop -- I can understand why most people here are recommending I muck it now. But my implied odds here are [censored] huge.

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As with most poker decisions, there are three options here. First is fold, which is to say pack up your tent and go home. That seems tight/weak given your feelings for this gal, and you might put yourself in a state of wistful regret for the rest of your life; and she may well feel the same. Second is to raise and ask her to marry you. The trouble here is that is that she may not say yes or, if she does, she then takes out her residual guilt on you for the next fifty years; of course, there's a chance that you two end up being ecstatic for all of time. The third option is to sort of call, which is to make your situation known to her parents and try to convince them that you're a decent option.

I can't assess the relative probabilities of these or judge your equities, but this is the right analysis paradigm. I would advise you in the future to make better preflop decisions so as to avoid this sort of tough decision. [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

In all seriousness, your spot is fraught with peril. I've been reading your posts for a while and think your head is generally screwed on pretty straight. This one, I think, is a gut-level decision that nobody is going to be able to help you with. Best of luck with it -- and please do keep EDF posted, pun intended.