HU- JJ... in which i underrep my hand so now i have to call a psb???

[kaz2107]

No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
2 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $132.45
BB: $81.05

Pre-flop: (2 players) Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $1.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $5.5</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($11, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($11, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets $5</font>, Hero calls.

River: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($21, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets $20</font>, Hero?????


Reads and thoughts...

Havent been playin this guy HU for too long. maybe like 30ish hands. seems decent tho which is why i think this is interesting. he had been playin aggro and reasonable both pre and post flop. he had 3 bet my btn raise 3 times. the reason i dont 4 bet is because of the 4 times he has 3 bet me i have only called once and folded the others. so i dont wanna 4 bet here and basically kill my hand.

so any ways i think the turn and river r pretty interesting. flop seemed like a good check behind. deff didnt want to get cr and keeping control of the pot here with decent showdown equity was good. now on the turn he throws out this bitch bet which i interpreted as weakness. so while i was playin the hand i thought... well 80% of this time he has trash and will dump to a raise and then 20% of the time he has a monster. AK or better basically. so i dont think raising was best here because it will basically fold out all hands that i beat n e wayz and will get called by all things that beat me.

but by just calling this turn bet doesnt it just SCREAM... i have an underpair??!?!?! as i said this guy knows wut he is doing so far and i anticipate him to pick up on this idea a good deal of the time. so my question is... since i play the hand this way and villian seems to kno wut he is doin am i commiting myself to call a psb or less on pretty much all rivers (except prolly an A)???

wut do u all think??!?!? pick apart my logic.

[Subzero_Wins]

I would be the flop.

As played river is an instacall.

[kolotoure]

I would expect him to check this flop almost always with Kx and he obv isn't doing this for value with a hand you beat. I think it is a fold but can be convinced otherwise

[Subzero_Wins]

If you plan on folding the river, why are you checking the flop then?

I would be value betting a T on the river if I were villain FWIW.

[Falconsbane]

I would have bet the flop. Why are you scared of him repopping? Best to bet and get some information or even get a fold. As this hand went you just followed along and were possibly ahead the entire hand and you don't like seeing more cards when you have a relatively weak holding like JJ. You never put him to a decision or gave him a chance to fold. Right now he thinks you're weak and is trying to push you around and you're basically inviting him to do so. He seems to be asking to get popped on the turn and I would have obliged. If he comes over the top, then you have a decision to make. If he calls you're likely to have the option to check behind on the river. As played, I would call the river and feel pretty bad about how the hand played out, win or lose.

[Kasane]

Sheesh, tough one, but I don't play HU all that often.

Isn't a 4bet almost OOP with JJ HU? You're going to dislike too many flops for me to see it any other way.


HU plays so differently, so much more a game flow thing that I think you have to go with your gut on what this bet means from this player. Is a psb for value, or to push you out. Would he rather bet 10 for you to call, or 20 to get you out... or vice-versa?

You've said he's probably good, so he's thinking on what level ...


Seems you've stacked him once, maybe twice and he's got back a little -- how's the match been going, especially the showdown hands? I mean, what does he think of you?

blah, I'll end my useless rambling here.

I'd fold this until I had a feel (post title makes me feel you have one on the other hand.)

[AZplaya]

I like this line as long as you called the river - I think a decent king would make a smaller value bet on the river - his line screams "wow you seem weak so I'm gonna push you off your pp cuz I know you hate that king!!!111"

[kaz2107]

[ QUOTE ]
Sheesh, tough one, but I don't play HU all that often.

Isn't a 4bet almost OOP with JJ HU? You're going to dislike too many flops for me to see it any other way.


HU plays so differently, so much more a game flow thing that I think you have to go with your gut on what this bet means from this player. Is a psb for value, or to push you out. Would he rather bet 10 for you to call, or 20 to get you out... or vice-versa?

You've said he's probably good, so he's thinking on what level ...


Seems you've stacked him once, maybe twice and he's got back a little -- how's the match been going, especially the showdown hands? I mean, what does he think of you?

blah, I'll end my useless rambling here.

I'd fold this until I had a feel (post title makes me feel you have one on the other hand.)

[/ QUOTE ]lol i understand wut u r sayin and sorta why i almost didnt post the hand. tbh tho there wasnt a huge flow at the moment. as i said we had only played 30ish hands up till now. my stack is deep becuase it is HU deep stacked. he is sittin for 100bbs and i had 200+ so we really hadnt played a big pot yet. we were still feeling each other out at the moment and really hadnt even seen a river yet i dont think. so i really dont have much. other then he seemed reasonable and was playin similar to the same way i play (which is rather rare tbh) he had 3 bet me a few times before but nothing really happened. i called once and then folded to a cbet on an A high flop. so i mean really not a ton up to this point.

my intiial thinkin was that villian was a thinking player to some extent. wut level is WELL beyond me and nothing i even consider at the table. i would guess like 2nd or 3rd but who knows tbh. lol.

so my thinking was that he prolly doesnt check the flop with much less then KQ that beats me. and then him firing a weak bet on the turn now makes me think even less likely that he has KT type hand. so he either has like AA or KK or sumtin or has an underpair/air.

the psb kinda made me wonder tho. my typical rule is to fold almost always when villian plays the hand weak and then fires the river big because i think it is often a slow play with a big hand. but this guy seemed decent enough to not use this line as standard and i would think that he would make a 12ish dollar bet on the river thus forcing me to call with my mediocre hand. but blah idk.

wut do u guys think about this thinking?!?! seem ok?

PS
i was in position so i dont thiink a 4 bet is mandatory

[0524432]

I play (and crush) 50nl HU on UB daily, this is a river fold literally 99% of the time. I may bet flop in rare instances but after villain 3bets PF, I check flop, call turn to re eval river, and once he makes a psb on river i muck every time (unless I have some flawless read that the guy is maniacle post flop in 3bet hands), pretty std IMO

[kaz2107]

[ QUOTE ]
I play (and crush) 50nl HU on UB daily, this is a river fold literally 99% of the time. I may bet flop in rare instances but after villain 3bets PF, I check flop, call turn to re eval river, and once he makes a psb on river i muck every time (unless I have some flawless read that the guy is maniacle post flop in 3bet hands), pretty std IMO

[/ QUOTE ]so wut r ur intentions when u call the turn!?!??! r u calling a half pot sized bet on this river?!?! wut abotu 2/3rds or 3/4ths. wut do u do if he checks to u on the river?!?!?!